489 replies to this topic

[BrooklynChiefsFan]

bah, just lost a pretty lengthy post regarding Manning and the Chiefs. Here's the jist of it. I don't think he will ever suit up again, so it is pointless getting excited about it. I also still want to develop our own drafted QB just for the principle of it. But if I could see into the future and he has 3-4 good legit Manning years to give us, then I would be on board, despite really wanting to get our own QB for once. Romeo and Jamal only have 3-4 years left, so that's pretty much what I feel our window is anyway before another total rebuild.

So, looking at another tidbit, there are a ton of Colts players hitting the UFA market this offseason.

Wayne
Tamme
Garcon
Mathis

I think most of those dudes would follow him anywhere, provided the money was there (not a problem for KC). Wayne is still a stud, he just had a bad year playing with garbage at QB. Picture the 2011 Steve Smith, multiply it times two, and that's the type of renaissance I think Wayne can have. Tamme is a great second TE, and insurance for brittle Moeaki. Garcon, in tandem with Wayne, gives us the flexibility to lose Bowe if he decides to walk on us (I'm not pushing him out the door) or if there is a too good to be true franchise player trade available.

Manning throwing to Wayne/Breaston/Baldwin/Garcon with a first and third to spend somewhere else is better IMO than anyone throwing to Bowe/Breaston/Baldwin/Copper. If somehow they retain Bowe and pass on Garcon and you have Bowe/Wayne/Breaston/Baldwin with a healthy JC, I might poop myself. I love Bowe, but would probably prefer to have the extra picks to bolster our secondary and O-Line. I'm going off on speculative fantasy tangents, but Trent Richardson at 11, the best FS available with the other first, and the best RT left at the top of the second to go with all those other ex-Colts? Plus another third to spend? You kidding me?

Then we get to Mathis and you wonder if he can convert to the 3-4. His coach thinks so: "I was talking to Mr. Irsay, if Wade Phillips can go to the Houston Texans and install the 3-4 with no offseason and make Mario Williams an outside linebacker and stand him up on early downs, that the two explosive, great athletes, the great pass rushers that we have on the edge here, I don’t see an issue." Mathis doesn't see an issue either. From his 1/12/12 twitter: @RobertMathis98

i dont think its too much different from a 4-3 rush end but OLB has better rush opportunities.

Not to turn this into an off-season wishlist post, but I want to point out that Kareem McKenzie (this buds for you nK) is also a UFA. You ink him and those franchise tag picks become really fun to play with.

[jambal67]

greatnessinc, on 04 February 2012 - 11:19 AM, said:

If I was him and I got signed to the Chiefs I'd demand that Barry Richardson is replaced immediately before the ink dried on the contract.

That would be the first order of business. But no, I don't want Manning here. He's done.

[HG]

I think your wrong on one point. If it were to happen that we got Manning. We wouldnt need any other players to follow him. I remember when Montana made the recievers we had at the time better

[BrooklynChiefsFan]

You are definitely on to something there HG. He would elevate the players we have here to unseen heights. I can't even imagine what Bowe would do with a competent QB...hence why I listed him above even Wayne in my hypothetical. That said, there were some players in that list that actually fill a huge need for us. A second TE is very important to this team. Both from a healthy depth chart standpoint, and with the probability that Tony M gets hurt again. As good as Manning is (in theory) he needs a better 4th WR than Copper. And I think this is only a move you make if you are going for the juggular and trying to win now, so giving him toys he is comfortable and has a built-in rapport with is just a smart move.

Mathis would be a huge luxury (but also fills a huge need) and I sort of only threw him in the convo to make the idea seem grander. Hoped it would help foster more conversation here to suggest a wild dream scenario. In my heart I really think he is done, but going through the scenarios in my head, I gotta say I am warming to the idea.

[HG]

I think Manning could cut it with Tony and quite possibly he could make Pope a star. He is perfect for Manning. He is more like Clark then a Gonzales.

[BigRedChiefsMachine]

I like Moeaki as much as the next guy - but he also needs to be healthy to help Manning. Last year's ACL injury was unfortunate, but it wasn't the first time in his career he's had significant injury trouble. He could be the Brodie Croyle of TE's for all we know (or the Brad Cottom, I suppose that would be a more appropriate comparison).

Beyond QB and RT, the rest of this team's offseason plan should include significantly upgrading depth at most positions. I'm not sure we'd be considered "deep" at any position, and this past year showed how important it is to have competent back-ups. If all those guys mentioned wanted to come to KC, they'd displace a lesser player.

[warthog]

Anyone else see today that Shefter reported that Peyton would play for incentives if he went somewhere? It sounding beter and better all the time. Of course when John Clayton was talking about it, he did not include the Chiefs as a team that might be interested. I think our outdoor stadium, cold weather, and blind loyalty towards Matty has counted us out.

[nathanKent]

BrooklynChiefsFan, on 04 February 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

Not to turn this into an off-season wishlist post, but I want to point out that Kareem McKenzie (this buds for you nK) is also a UFA. You ink him and those franchise tag picks become really fun to play with.

My mancrush for McKenzie is well known, but he'll be 33 in May. He'd be a short term solution, which is fine as long as the front office treats him as such and continues to actively look for his eventual replacement.

He's not a perfect fit here either, given that he's primarily a road grading run blocker, and our top RB apparently doesn't seem to be affected by not having blockers.

[The_Jonas]

nathanKent, on 05 February 2012 - 05:48 PM, said:

My mancrush for McKenzie is well known, but he'll be 33 in May. He'd be a short term solution, which is fine as long as the front office treats him as such and continues to actively look for his eventual replacement.

He's not a perfect fit here either, given that he's primarily a road grading run blocker, and our top RB apparently doesn't seem to be affected by not having blockers.

I think we all saw what our 'run blocking' really looked like last season without Charles.

Conclusion: Albert is amazing, Richardson is beyond terrible, and everyone in between is average or a little below.

With Chalres they become Albert is still amazing, Richardson is just bad, and everyone in between is above average!

[Chi-town_Chief]

Quote

SI.com has learned from NFL sources that Manning actually underwent a fourth, unreported, medical procedure in the past two years, not three as has been widely known.

While it cannot be determined exactly when the unreported procedure on Manning's neck took place, it was at some point after his May 23 surgery in Chicago to correct a bulging disk, and before his Sept. 9 one-level cervical neck fusion surgery in Marina Del Rey, Calif. The same doctor who operated on Manning's bulging disk in May did a follow-up procedure last summer in Chicago, as a result of the original surgery. Both of those operations came while the NFL and its players were still engaged in their protracted labor fight, with clubs having very limited medical contact with injured players. At the time of Manning's September neck operation, that surgery was reported to be his third neck procedure in 19 months. In reality, it was his fourth.

In addition, league sources say Manning's neck has potentially developed bone spurs just above the point where his latest fusion surgery took place in early September, and the Colts organization is under the belief that it is nearly inevitable Manning will at some point require further surgery, and possibly another fusion procedure, even if he does successfully return to the field in 2012. It's unclear how any potential long-term neck issues will impact Manning's decision to attempt a resumption of his NFL playing career later this year.

When reached Wednesday, Manning's agent, Tom Condon, declined to comment on any specifics regarding his high-profile client, other than adding: "I wouldn't have anything to say about all of that, one way or another.''

While the new details paint a picture of Manning's health that may be more tenuous than is publicly known, NFL sources told SI.com that the Colts quarterback was strenuously trying to show team officials and coaches that he was capable of playing in the final two weeks of the regular season, but specifically in red zone situations, where his limited arm strength would be less of a liability.

Manning was targeting the Colts' Week 16 home finale against Houston for his return, league sources said, even taking part in an organized and fully-scripted 30-play practice session in the week leading up to Indy's Week 15 home game against Tennessee. In that workout, Manning performed in front of Colts team president Bill Polian, head coach Jim Caldwell and offensive coordinator Clyde Christensen, who was on hand to call plays.

Manning threw passes to Indianapolis running back Joseph Addai during the workout, as well as to some reserve or practice-squad Colts receivers. Longtime Colts center Jeff Saturday snapped the ball to Manning, who also tried to elicit the participation of Colts receiver Austin Collie, league sources said. But that move was vetoed by Polian because Collie was gimpy at the time from a foot injury. The side practice session was not in violation of any NFL rules, because all players involved were on the active roster, with the Colts checking with the league to make sure they were in compliance.

While one league source said Manning was clearly angling to play against Houston, another league source said the issue quickly became moot after the Manning-led workout, because Colts team physician Hank Feuer quickly ruled out clearing Manning for any on-field action.

Feuer said Manning's neck muscles at that time were still atrophied from his long period of inactivity following the September surgery, and he had yet to recover his full range of motion in the area. It short-circuited any possibility Manning had of getting back on the field before the 2011 season ended, with him at one point hopeful he could show the team he was capable of running its red-zone offense against the Texans and possibly the following week at Jacksonville, league sources said.

Polian was said to be initially frustrated by the extent and scope of the workout, which he then viewed as a surprising attempt to play in a meaningless situation at the end of a long and defeat-filled season in Indianapolis. League sources say the former leader of the Colts front office was taken off-guard by the intensity and pace of the 30-play session that Manning took part in. Polian was under the belief that it would be conducted at walk-through speed, but instead it was held at typical regular-season tempo with scripted play calls.

A day later, league sources said, the team's strength and conditioning staff impressed upon Polian that it had wanted to see how Manning responded to a fast-paced and scripted workout, because his recovery was not going to reach the next level if he simply continued to lob passes at a leisurely pace. And the practice was conducted from the 25-yard line on in because that was then roughly Manning's ceiling in terms of his arm strength throwing the ball.

Sources who were on hand for the practice say that while Manning was accurate with his passes, he threw nothing longer than 20-22 yards, and his passes wobbled at times, with perhaps 80 percent of his usual velocity. Manning also seemed to be visibly fatigued at times during the workout, sources said, which further convinced Caldwell and others that it would be unwise to risk further injury to their franchise quarterback with a cameo appearance against Houston or Jacksonville.

"He wanted to go on the field and try to dump red-zone passes against Houston,'' a league source said. "Even though his neck muscles hadn't even been strengthened yet. Can you imagine anyone putting him on the field in that situation? Just to throw a string of red-zone passes? But that's where things were going at that time, and it kind of speaks to the insanity of the situation.''

All four of Manning's recent surgeries or medical procedures have been on the right side of his neck, league sources said. The team is concerned that Manning's neck injuries have reached the chronic stage, and that there could be a genetic aspect to his condition. Manning's older brother, Cooper, 38, had his college football career ended before it began when he was diagnosed with spinal stenosis, a narrowing of the spinal canal that required surgery to relieve pressure on the spinal cord. In Peyton Manning's case, any evidence of stenosis is thought to be on the moderate side, league sources said, but the likelihood of further complications increase with each new surgery he undergoes.

http://sportsillustr...l#ixzz1mTkyzETa

[warthog]

Here Comes The Peyton Manning Talk

by Joel Thorman on Feb 23, 2012 5:02 PM CST

Peyton Manning, the biggest free-agent-to-be in history, or at least since Reggie White, should be hitting the market sometime before his March 8 bonus is due. As we've said before, because Manning is Manning and one of the greatest quarterbacks ever so there will be a boatload of rumors connecting Manning to a lot of teams. So far, it seems there are just a few teams often connected to him, and the Chiefs aren't one of them.

But it seems this is the Chiefs day.


It all started with an appearance from Mike Florio on Doug Gottlieb's radio show on Wednesday. Florio said he had a feeling the Chiefs were going to be the team to get Manning. Not a report or anything like that, just a talking-out-loud hunch, sorta thing.

And then on Thursday both Nick Wright and Bob Fescoe of 610 Sports tweeted out Manning-to-KC rumors on Thursday afternoon.
<a href="https://twitter.com/#%21/getnickwright/status/172794841858715648">Wright: "I know a lot of you guys thought I was joking about Peyton to KC being possible, but I'm hearing more and more that it really could happen."

Fescoe: "Hearing the #chiefs and tom condon have spoken twice abt peyton manning. Told financials a good fit for kc. We shall see what happens"

Florio has since followed up with a post citing Fescoe's information. He also points out that Fescoe's tweet basically results in the Chiefs tampering with Manning. That's common at the Combine but I bet the Chiefs don't wanna be called on it, especially if it isn't true.

When it comes to Manning, the key for me is to believe that everyone has an opinion on what will happen, but no one knows what will happen. I think we're gonna be on an up-and-down ride during Manning's pending free agency.

To add a little fuel to the fire, remember a few weeks back Voice Of The Chiefs Mitch Holthus guessed the Chiefs would at least investigate the move. Maybe just a look-see to see what his situation is. Perhaps more.

From my perspective, he does make a ton of sense for KC. That's why I'm surprised KC isn't brought up by national media outlets as a Manning landing spot. The problem is that he also makes sense for about 20 other teams. This just doesn't seem like their style. I have been and I still am under the assumption Matt Cassel will be the starter in 2012. If you're wondering my QB guess, that's it.

Part of me is saying, 'No way can this be true...' and the other part says, ''Well, it does make some sense...' (And the other part of me is wondering whether Peyton will come with an apology for what the Colts did to our Chiefs in the divisional playoffs in 1993, again in January 1994 and then even again in the Wild Card game in January 2007.)

So I guess what I'm saying is that I'm not sure yet what I'm saying. You?

[BrooklynChiefsFan]

Like I said, sign the dude and bring Wayne, Tamme, and Mathis with him. Extend Carr, tag him if you have to. Try to sign Bowe outright with the promise of a real QB but if the financials or logic don't work you go to battle with Wayne/Baldwin/Breaston. Draft Richardson at 11, and a right tackle in the second. Bring along Kareem McKenzie with his line coach to start at RT for a year or two and the team is pretty much setup. Just draft for safety depth and find Manning a scrub 4th WR in the later rounds of the draft that he'll turn into a fantasy stud.

In my heart I just know his health isn't there, but I so want all of that to be true.

[nathanKent]

BrooklynChiefsFan, on 23 February 2012 - 09:30 PM, said:

Like I said, sign the dude and bring Wayne, Tamme, and Mathis with him. Extend Carr, tag him if you have to. Try to sign Bowe outright with the promise of a real QB but if the financials or logic don't work you go to battle with Wayne/Baldwin/Breaston. Draft Richardson at 11, and a right tackle in the second. Bring along Kareem McKenzie with his line coach to start at RT for a year or two and the team is pretty much setup. Just draft for safety depth and find Manning a scrub 4th WR in the later rounds of the draft that he'll turn into a fantasy stud.

In my heart I just know his health isn't there, but I so want all of that to be true.

Even if he was healthy, he's got.... what.... three years, tops?

[The_Jonas]

nathanKent, on 23 February 2012 - 11:57 PM, said:

Even if he was healthy, he's got.... what.... three years, tops?

I have no faith Manning will actually play again, but let's stop and play hypothetical land for a minute. Everything I say is under the assumption that manning comes back at say.. 80%. He plays for... two years.

f**k signing all of those guys. Keep building through the draft... just draft right. Manning, at 80%, easily takes this team to the post season twice. Without a QB to develop behind him the acquisition does nothing for us long term though.

Can you imagine running that stretch that manning LOVES with Jamaal Charles? Good lord.

In the short term Manning in a wheel chair > Matt Cassel. I don't know about you, but I've had enough of the Matt Cassel era.

[ChiefsChick23]

The_Jonas, on 24 February 2012 - 02:22 AM, said:

I have no faith Manning will actually play again, but let's stop and play hypothetical land for a minute. Everything I say is under the assumption that manning comes back at say.. 80%. He plays for... two years.

f**k signing all of those guys. Keep building through the draft... just draft right. Manning, at 80%, easily takes this team to the post season twice. Without a QB to develop behind him the acquisition does nothing for us long term though.

Can you imagine running that stretch that manning LOVES with Jamaal Charles? Good lord.

In the short term Manning in a wheel chair > Matt Cassel. I don't know about you, but I've had enough of the Matt Cassel era.

The choice is not Manning or Cassel. It's "short term solution" vs. "long term" (barring injury of course).

I've been liking the "do what it takes to get RG3" talk, as it addresses today and the future.

Peyton needs to retire.

[Los Pollos Hermanos]

There are no realistic "long term" solutions. It would take a miracle for the Chiefs to get RGIII. A miracle.

If Manning is healthy, then getting him is actually possible for this organization. A short term solution is better then no solution. How many productive years does Jamaal Charles have? How many more years does Tamba remain an elite pass rusher?

I'll take short term run at a Super Bowl it that's all we have. To me, that seems like all we have.

[BrooklynChiefsFan]

Los Pollos Hermanos, on 24 February 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

There are no realistic "long term" solutions. It would take a miracle for the Chiefs to get RGIII. A miracle.

If Manning is healthy, then getting him is actually possible for this organization. A short term solution is better then no solution. How many productive years does Jamaal Charles have? How many more years does Tamba remain an elite pass rusher?

I'll take short term run at a Super Bowl it that's all we have. To me, that seems like all we have.

that's my thinking. Our head coach and running back have a 3 year window. I love Griffen and would trade the farm to get him, but other teams have a farm and a tractor. If it is possible, that's my 1A, but if not and Manning is healthy, that's my 1B. But Griffin is not Luck - a guy who comes along once every 10-20 years. Before this window shuts there will be another QB we can get excited for and try to develop under him. That's not to say keeping waiting it out. Chiefs need to make a definitive move right now and that means either getting Griffin or signing Manning. If Manning isn't healthy then there is only one choice.

[BigRedChiefsMachine]

The funny thing is, when you get a young, superstar QB on your roster, the talent level of everybody else on the roster matters less. I'm not saying that the rest of the team can be garbage, but there are no more 'windows' to worry about except your QB's window.

However, if my only choice is between Manning for 3 years or Cassel for 3 years, I'm obviously going for Manning.

[BrooklynChiefsFan]

I am sort of torn on this. I cannot express how much I really want RG3. As stupid as it sounds, I almost prefer him to Luck. But then in the back of my mind I start thinking about timelines, preparation, and the team-wide ripple effect that will follow. If we can check out Manning on March 9th, know that he is good to go and sign him to a contract that day, I almost would be willing to take the gamble and move on from a stud rookie QB (we'd still need to draft one this year for depth/development). There are 6 or 7 weeks between that time and draft day, and you just know STL is gonna play the string out to get max value. Everything we do in free agency and draft prep will be on hold if we are waiting to see how the chips fall with Griffin. Get Manning early and the holes become apparent. You bolster around him through free agency and your workouts take on a very focused approach based on that talent acquisition.

Suppose my plan above all came to fruition. It lets us know very early on that we'd have a new QB, solid TE depth, another standout pass rusher, and a top 10 WR to replace Bowe if need be. This allows us to make a calculated move with Carr, and gives the option to draft for need and/or trade back with our #11 pick. On the other hand, if we wait till mid/late April to try and get in the draft mix, it does sort of leave us exposed with the Bowe vs. Carr debate, still leaves a gigantic elephant in the room with regards to wh our QB is, and opens up the discussion on the first pick to a multitude of options, and most importantly makes our free agency bidding a little uncertain. It's a little scary and confusing for me. There are a million different options this off-season and all of them could make us better so it's not like we are screwed if we handle it one way or the other. If we let Bowe walk, I would be happy to replace him with Marques Colston. Does he last that long in FA? Can we make the decision that our big bucks are going to replace the #1 WR if all the other ducks are not in a row?

It's all just hypothetical now and I have to remind myself that Manning likely is never going to play again, but I have to admit I like the structure and progress the Chiefs franchise makes by going that route as opposed to waiting for the draft this year, which is always unpredictable. Then of course you have the problem where not committing to drafting a QB in the first leaves things just as much up in the air because clearly I am vacillating right now. Devil's advocate tells me to completely say f**k it and write off going for a retread and committing 100% to a rookie QB. I am just glad I only have to be the arm chair GM.

[Chi-town_Chief]

Yeah this one is tough. If Manning can play, and that is a big if, I would love to have him, draft a rookie this year, or next and have them train under Manning. Who knows maybe he can take Stanzi to the next level.

I would love to have RGIII but I don't see how. There are too many teams ahead of us that need a QB. Do you honestly think we could out bid Washington?