56 replies to this topic

[SPC Hephner]

Pioli was talking about free agents and said on several occasions that its a two way mairage, and they have to want to be here. That leads me to believe that one (Bowe), or both players don't want to be here. With that being said, we have a franchise tag that we can use on one of them. So who would you rather have on the team next year if we can only have one?

I would rather have Brandon Carr. The strength of this team is defense and with the way teams are throwing the ball, you can't have too many dbacks.

However if we have to franchise one of them, they will likely be here for only a year then walk. So in this case I would franchise Bowe and try to use him to move up in the draft.

[ChiefInAdel]

SPC Hephner, on 11 January 2012 - 11:37 AM, said:

Pioli was talking about free agents and said on several occasions that its a two way mairage, and they have to want to be here. That leads me to believe that one (Bowe), or both players don't want to be here. With that being said, we have a franchise tag that we can use on one of them. So who would you rather have on the team next year if we can only have one?

I would rather have Brandon Carr. The strength of this team is defense and with the way teams are throwing the ball, you can't have too many dbacks.

However if we have to franchise one of them, they will likely be here for only a year then walk. So in this case I would franchise Bowe and try to use him to move up in the draft.

No, that's not what I got out of it.

He was asked about Bowe and Carr, and stated that he wanted to try and sign them both to a long term deal as quickly as possible.

He was also asked about signing OTHER fa's to the team, but that for the team to get them, they would have to want to be there as well...

[EstablishedAce]

If we had to keep one moving forward it would be Carr. He is a key part of this defense and we don't have a QB to use our WRs to their full extent plus we just drafted Baldwin and have Breaston back there as well.

If it was just a one year deal or using them as trade bait, then franchise Bowe and trade him, we could probably get more for him.

[The_Jonas]

I think Carr loves playing with Flowers and wants to be here. If Carr isnt' brought back, I'm pretty convinced it's because the team didn't really want him back that badly.

If I was Bowe, I'd want to get out of here, Playing with these shitty QB's is hurting my value and the experience of my limited NFL career. I would not re-sign to KC. Not a chance. I'm tired of catching passes from guys like Palko, Croyle, Huard, Thigpen, Cassel, and Orton.

Then again, I say that about a lot of players in bad situations, and almost all of them re-sign anyway.

Then they ask for a trade 3 years later.

[NOLA]

The_Jonas, on 11 January 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

I think Carr loves playing with Flowers and wants to be here. If Carr isnt' brought back, I'm pretty convinced it's because the team didn't really want him back that badly.

If I was Bowe, I'd want to get out of here, Playing with these shitty QB's is hurting my value and the experience of my limited NFL career. I would not re-sign to KC. Not a chance. I'm tired of catching passes from guys like Palko, Croyle, Huard, Thigpen, Cassel, and Orton.

Then again, I say that about a lot of players in bad situations, and almost all of them re-sign anyway.

Then they ask for a trade 3 years later.

I still think franchising and trading Bowe is the play to make.

[AssKickingBoots]

NOLA, on 11 January 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

I still think franchising and trading Bowe is the play to make.

Yeah, probably. If we get our QB situation fixed in that time frame, he'll have more reason to stay, though he will be peeved about getting franchised.

Carr is vital IMO. I'd much rather have him on my team than Bowe, and that's saying something because Bowe is a playmaker. I don't know if there's a true shutdown corner anymore in this league, but we have two that are very close to it and it's a problem most teams we face will have a hard time coping with.

[The_Jonas]

AssKickingBoots, on 11 January 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

Yeah, probably. If we get our QB situation fixed in that time frame, he'll have more reason to stay, though he will be peeved about getting franchised.

Carr is vital IMO. I'd much rather have him on my team than Bowe, and that's saying something because Bowe is a playmaker. I don't know if there's a true shutdown corner anymore in this league, but we have two that are very close to it and it's a problem most teams we face will have a hard time coping with.

Well, Darrel Revis is totally shut-down.

But as Brandon Marshall pointed out, he also plays by different rules than any other CB in the NFL. Dude hasn't been called for PI since his rookie season, and I'm sorry but I'm not buying it.

[Dom]

NOLA, on 11 January 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

I still think franchising and trading Bowe is the play to make.

I'm curious of his value?

[The_Jonas]

NOLA, on 11 January 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

I still think franchising and trading Bowe is the play to make.

If the Rams were interested in Bowe and wanted to trade their top pick as part of a deal to get him, how much do you think it would cost us?

You can't really use the draft value chart, because player value is entirely subjective... unlike the value of draft slotting. What else do you guys think we'd have to give up?

Bah, this is pointless. Our QB = Matt Cassel. To titillate me with thoughts of otherwise is... is just bullshit.

[NOLA]

The_Jonas, on 11 January 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

If the Rams were interested in Bowe and wanted to trade their top pick as part of a deal to get him, how much do you think it would cost us?

You can't really use the draft value chart, because player value is entirely subjective... unlike the value of draft slotting. What else do you guys think we'd have to give up?

Bah, this is pointless. Our QB = Matt Cassel. To titillate me with thoughts of otherwise is... is just bullshit.

It sounds like we're committed to Cassel, but to humor the hypothetical (and crush my spirits)... Dunno what it would take. I would hope Bowe and our 1st rounder would get it done, but, realistically, we'd probably have to throw in some sort of conditional 2012 pick as well. Bowe is the real deal, though, so I would hope that would count for something.

[BrooklynChiefsFan]

The_Jonas, on 11 January 2012 - 01:57 PM, said:

If the Rams were interested in Bowe and wanted to trade their top pick as part of a deal to get him, how much do you think it would cost us?

You can't really use the draft value chart, because player value is entirely subjective... unlike the value of draft slotting. What else do you guys think we'd have to give up?

Bah, this is pointless. Our QB = Matt Cassel. To titillate me with thoughts of otherwise is... is just bullshit.

I think I was the first one to suggest this exact combination and got blasted for it. Bowe + the 11th pick for the #2 pick is your baseline, right? I'd give them our 2012 3rd (#75), and 2013 2nd if they also threw in their 2012 second.

2/33
for
Bowe/11/75/future second rounder

I'd probably even do it if they insisted on giving us this years 3rd (#66) instead of the second.

[The_Jonas]

NOLA, on 11 January 2012 - 02:07 PM, said:

It sounds like we're committed to Cassel, but to humor the hypothetical (and crush my spirits)... Dunno what it would take. I would hope Bowe and our 1st rounder would get it done, but, realistically, we'd probably have to throw in some sort of conditional 2012 pick as well. Bowe is the real deal, though, so I would hope that would count for something.

I mean a hypothetical deal...

Say we swap Bowe, our 1st, and our 2nd for their 1st and a 3rd or something along those lines?

I'm with you though... Bowe is a damn fine WR who the rams specifically could REALLY use. He's a proven commodity. I know people can say "Well, they can draft Blackmon"... yeah, but they'd STILL have a pretty good first round pick (what are we 12th?) and a real solution to their WR problem. It seems like a solid deal for them, even if the later picks are negotiated down on our end.

Brooklyn is on the same line of thinking it appears.

[BrooklynChiefsFan]

Just also like to point out that another meaningless week 17 win against the Broncos (see 2009) has cost us 3 draft spots. If you factor in the fluke vs. GB (but man oh, man was that awesome), we've got just as much ammo to throw at STL as the Skins do. IMO, the Redskins are the team to beat when dealing for the Rams pick. Dropping from 2 to 7, the Rams probably still get their guy. They deal with us and who knows what's on the board at 11.

[jambal67]

AssKickingBoots, on 11 January 2012 - 01:49 PM, said:

Yeah, probably. If we get our QB situation fixed in that time frame, he'll have more reason to stay, though he will be peeved about getting franchised.

Carr is vital IMO. I'd much rather have him on my team than Bowe, and that's saying something because Bowe is a playmaker. I don't know if there's a true shutdown corner anymore in this league, but we have two that are very close to it and it's a problem most teams we face will have a hard time coping with.

I have to agree with this but I think we may be close to a deal with Carr. In that case, franchise Bowe and let's see what happens.

BrooklynChiefsFan, on 11 January 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

Just also like to point out that another meaningless week 17 win against the Broncos (see 2009) has cost us 3 draft spots. If you factor in the fluke vs. GB (but man oh, man was that awesome), we've got just as much ammo to throw at STL as the Skins do. IMO, the Redskins are the team to beat when dealing for the Rams pick. Dropping from 2 to 7, the Rams probably still get their guy. They deal with us and who knows what's on the board at 11.

I still have problems with this logic. Why would you want to lose a game against a hated rival?

[NOLA]

The_Jonas, on 11 January 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

I mean a hypothetical deal...

Say we swap Bowe, our 1st, and our 2nd for their 1st and a 3rd or something along those lines?

I'm with you though... Bowe is a damn fine WR who the rams specifically could REALLY use. He's a proven commodity. I know people can say "Well, they can draft Blackmon"... yeah, but they'd STILL have a pretty good first round pick (what are we 12th?) and a real solution to their WR problem. It seems like a solid deal for them, even if the later picks are negotiated down on our end.

Brooklyn is on the same line of thinking it appears.

Crap, I meant conditional 2013 pick in my original suggestion, but yeah, I think you, Brook, and me are all on the same page. Bowe would be a huge get for STL... that should be worth something to them.

[BrooklynChiefsFan]

jambal67, on 11 January 2012 - 03:07 PM, said:

I have to agree with this but I think we may be close to a deal with Carr. In that case, franchise Bowe and let's see what happens.



I still have problems with this logic. Why would you want to lose a game against a hated rival?

I see your point. Winning those games has done so much for us thus far. If the season is still worth something, then yeah, kill those bastards. Bottom line, we didn't eliminate the Broncos so we can't even hang our hat on that. Moral victories are worth nothing at the end of the year IMO. KC dodged a bullet in 2009 by not drafting ahead of Tampa Bay. I was sure they would take Berry ahead of us.

[BrooklynChiefsFan]

Washington is gonna get that #2 pick. But I don't see how the Rams are more willing to trade it to a team in their conference if the offers are comparable. If we could somehow get Minnesota's #3 pick very early before the draft we could dangle it to St. Louis, basically making anything else we give them house money.

Going from 3 to 2 is simple.
Going from 7 to 2 is tricky but doable
Going from 11 to 2 is a damn near pipe dream

to go full circle and re-answer jambal's question, going from 5 to 2 is the position I'd like to find myself in. That's the difference of the two meaningless games we won against GB and Denver.

[nathanKent]

The dream trade would be Baldwin and Cassel for the #2.

[NOLA]

BrooklynChiefsFan, on 11 January 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:

Washington is gonna get that #2 pick. But I don't see how the Rams are more willing to trade it to a team in their conference if the offers are comparable. If we could somehow get Minnesota's #3 pick very early before the draft we could dangle it to St. Louis, basically making anything else we give them house money.

Going from 3 to 2 is simple.
Going from 7 to 2 is tricky but doable
Going from 11 to 2 is a damn near pipe dream

to go full circle and re-answer jambal's question, going from 5 to 2 is the position I'd like to find myself in. That's the difference of the two meaningless games we won against GB and Denver.

Just to play Devil's Advocate here, ask yourself this: if we hadn't won those two games, would RAC be head coach? Would that be better or worse for us?

(I don't have answers, or strong opinions, about those questions, just asking)

[NOLA]

nathanKent, on 11 January 2012 - 03:21 PM, said:

The dream trade would be Baldwin and Cassel for the #2.

Why would the Rams want Cassel? Especially at his salary? Why would Cassel go without protest?