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Paterno is about to be fired


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#21 warthog

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 01:48 AM

View Postchiefsknitter, on 09 November 2011 - 10:16 PM, said:


I guess I disagree. I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I don't want to live in a world where winning football games is more important than preventing the sexual assault of children. Paterno didn't physically touch those children, but he had a hand in their abuse by his choice not to act. I find it unconscionable.
This. Just because he went to the AD and said something does not clear him of all wrong doing. He knew what this demented monster did to children and STILL associated with the guy and even worse, let him be free to continue his evil, cruel, sick acts upon defenseless children. We can argue over and over about what Paterno did and if it was legal, but the bottom line is that he failed those children that were molested after he knew about this. He failed those children and they had to pay for it. No, he is not legally in trouble for this. Yes, he is morally defunct in this.

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#22 chiefsknitter

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 09:03 AM

This is the best summary of how I feel about this.

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These things should be simple:


1. When, as an adult, you come come across another adult raping a small child, you should a) do everything in your power to rescue that child from the rapist, b) call the police the moment it is practicable.
2. If your adult son calls you to tell you that he just saw another adult raping a small child, but then left that small child with the rapist, and then asks you what he should do, you should a) tell him to get off the phone with you and call the police immediately, b) call the police yourself and make a report, c) at the appropriate time in the future ask your adult son why the f**k he did not try to save that kid.

A good read, and a good summary of how I personally feel about this situation. If I saw a child being harmed, I would risk my own personal safety trying to stop it.

#23 AssKickingBoots

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:05 AM

When you witness, directly or indirectly, someone you're very close to commit such acts, it's very different from being an unfamiliar bystander. You know this person. This isn't a child-rapist in your eyes, it's a friend, co-worker, family member, etc., and they made a grievous mistake. It's the same reason why you don't disown someone you know for getting a DUI or something, no matter how much you're against drunk-driving. You don't look to crucify them, you want to help them, get them through their problems.

Now, is that mentality a mistake? Absolutely. This is no occasion to play arm-chair psychologist. It's very easy to say from afar what you would have done different. You don't really know until it happens before you, and nothing can prepare you for it. You never see it coming.

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#24 Chi-town_Chief

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:19 AM

View PostAssKickingBoots, on 10 November 2011 - 10:05 AM, said:

When you witness, directly or indirectly, someone you're very close to commit such acts, it's very different from being an unfamiliar bystander. You know this person. This isn't a child-rapist in your eyes, it's a friend, co-worker, family member, etc., and they made a grievous mistake. It's the same reason why you don't disown someone you know for getting a DUI or something, no matter how much you're against drunk-driving. You don't look to crucify them, you want to help them, get them through their problems.

Now, is that mentality a mistake? Absolutely. This is no occasion to play arm-chair psychologist. It's very easy to say from afar what you would have done different. You don't really know until it happens before you, and nothing can prepare you for it. You never see it coming.

This is true, but if you choose not to go to the police when it happens you have to deal with the consequence when the truth comes out. It's a shame that Joe Pa was blinded by his relationship with this man, because it will forever taint his career.

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#25 chiefsknitter

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:49 AM

I'm not looking to crucify Paterno. I just don't think he deserves to keep his job. I don't think McQueary (the one who witnessed the assault and then talked to his dad, and then Paterno) should keep his job either, because what he did is worse than what Paterno did.

I'm not saying Paterno is a terrible person, or that he deserves to go to jail. He had a tragic lapse of judgment, and failed to act when it mattered most. Legally I don't think that he didn't anything wrong. Morally and ethically, you bet. The grand jury report was awful to read -- Sandusky is a real monster.

#26 HG

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:05 AM

View PostAssKickingBoots, on 10 November 2011 - 10:05 AM, said:

When you witness, directly or indirectly, someone you're very close to commit such acts, it's very different from being an unfamiliar bystander. You know this person. This isn't a child-rapist in your eyes, it's a friend, co-worker, family member, etc., and they made a grievous mistake. It's the same reason why you don't disown someone you know for getting a DUI or something, no matter how much you're against drunk-driving. You don't look to crucify them, you want to help them, get them through their problems.

Now, is that mentality a mistake? Absolutely. This is no occasion to play arm-chair psychologist. It's very easy to say from afar what you would have done different. You don't really know until it happens before you, and nothing can prepare you for it. You never see it coming.
If it was a DUI or somethng like that I would totally agree with you. But If i were to come across a friend or just someone I knew doing that to a kid. I would call the police and then beat the crap out of them. Id stop it. I might get my ass kicked. But I promis you I would stop it from happining.

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#27 warthog

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:07 AM

View PostAssKickingBoots, on 10 November 2011 - 10:05 AM, said:

When you witness, directly or indirectly, someone you're very close to commit such acts, it's very different from being an unfamiliar bystander. You know this person. This isn't a child-rapist in your eyes, it's a friend, co-worker, family member, etc., and they made a grievous mistake. It's the same reason why you don't disown someone you know for getting a DUI or something, no matter how much you're against drunk-driving. You don't look to crucify them, you want to help them, get them through their problems.

Now, is that mentality a mistake? Absolutely. This is no occasion to play arm-chair psychologist. It's very easy to say from afar what you would have done different. You don't really know until it happens before you, and nothing can prepare you for it. You never see it coming.

I guess I don't agree with the term 'grevious mistake' the way it is used here. What Sandusky did was way, way beyond a grevious mistake, it was an evil, demented, sick, calculated crime upon an innocent young child. In no sense of the meaning could that be a mistake. Even what Paterno and the graduate assistant did, by NOT coming forward with the information they had about the monster cannot be classified as a mistake becuase they purposely with held that information knowing that more children could be endangered by the Ahole.

This wasn't a mistake by anyone except the victim that made the mistake to trust someone older than him.

My name is Maximus Decimus Warthog, member of HomeoftheChiefs.com, former season ticket holder of the lower level , loyal servant to the true coach, Martimus Schottenheimer. Father to disenfranchised sons, husband to a non football fanatic wife, and I will see my Chiefs in a Super Bowl, in this life or the next.
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#28 warthog

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:15 AM

View PostHG, on 10 November 2011 - 11:05 AM, said:

If it was a DUI or somethng like that I would totally agree with you. But If i were to come across a friend or just someone I knew doing that to a kid. I would call the police and then beat the crap out of them. Id stop it. I might get my ass kicked. But I promis you I would stop it from happining.

Well said. This isn't a DWI, theft, or drug charge, this is the worst thing possible that a human can do to another human short of murder. I don't care how long I knew the person or how close they were, I know, and this isn't what I would maybe do, I know that I would step in and stop it, and as HG said, if I died trying, so be it.

My name is Maximus Decimus Warthog, member of HomeoftheChiefs.com, former season ticket holder of the lower level , loyal servant to the true coach, Martimus Schottenheimer. Father to disenfranchised sons, husband to a non football fanatic wife, and I will see my Chiefs in a Super Bowl, in this life or the next.
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#29 AssKickingBoots

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:59 AM

I'm not saying it was just a grievous mistake. Nor am I by any means comparing the severity of the crime to a DWI. It's just that's the often the mindset of the person in Joe's shoes, the person indirectly involved. Again, it's the wrong mentality to have, but there are reasons for it.

A few of you, your reactions are partially tied to your paternal/maternal instincts. But that isn't the vantage point Joe had. The abuse had already occurred. Nothing could undo it, not even a deserved ass kicking. He knows the person, trusts them, and begs them to change.

I'm not excusing his inaction, I just understand it.

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#30 RazorChief

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 02:42 PM

A mistake is taking an exit too early off the interstate. A mistake is getting skim milk instead of 2%. Repeated abuse is an intentional, deliberate act which can in no way be construed as a mistake.

#31 AssKickingBoots

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 04:36 PM

View PostRazorChief, on 10 November 2011 - 02:42 PM, said:

A mistake is taking an exit too early off the interstate. A mistake is getting skim milk instead of 2%. Repeated abuse is an intentional, deliberate act which can in no way be construed as a mistake.
Right... Which Paterno did not do. Are you getting my point yet?

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#32 RazorChief

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 05:43 PM

View PostAssKickingBoots, on 10 November 2011 - 04:36 PM, said:

Right... Which Paterno did not do. Are you getting my point yet?
He passed along the info but still allowed this guy to be around. He did NOT do anything else as far as pursuing an investigation or making certain that actions were taken against the perpetrator. When I was a supervisor with children services we despised people like this as much as the offenders because they knew what was happening but did not do anything to stop the abuse. He knew but did nothing. Personally, I am glad that he got fired instead of being allowed to gracefully resign and go quietly into the sunset. Maybe I am still missing your point--I don't know.

#33 chiefsfaninky

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 07:35 PM

By not pursuing this, Joe not only failed the kids, he failed his friend. He allowed him to continue to feed his sickness, instead of getting him help. Poor judgement, all around, and EVERYONE that had a knowing of these going ons, must be fired, and or held accountable. This is a sad, sad situation.

#34 HG

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 09:35 PM

Yeah. No one wins on this one.

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#35 autodrummer

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 01:19 AM

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Penn State child sex-abuse scandal: When we had the facts, we ran the story

Published: Thursday, November 10, 2011, 11:54 AM Updated: Thursday, November 10, 2011, 4:50 PM

Posted Image By DAVID NEWHOUSE, The Patriot-News
On Friday, The Patriot-News was the first news organization to report that former Penn State coach Jerry Sandusky had been charged with child sex abuse. Since then, the national media have descended on Happy Valley and our own coverage has drawn 6 million page views on PennLive.com.
While many readers have expressed their appreciation for our coverage, some have asked: Forget Joe Paterno or Graham Spanier. Why didn’t The Patriot-News investigate these allegations sooner?
That’s an important question. Here is the answer:





The Patriot-News broke the story that Jerry Sandusky was being investigated for child sex abuse back in March. We told the stories of two victims in detail.
We wrote additional stories in April and August, including one that reported the grand jury had heard testimony from multiple victims.
Any of the national news media who were shocked by Sandusky’s indictmentlast week evidently don’t read our newspaper or look at our website. They should have.
But could we have reported the story sooner than March?

Until 1998, none of the young victims came forward to tell their story — not to the police or to anyone. It is a terrible cruelty that the trauma of sex abuse often drives victims into silence when sharing their story could help them and others.

In 1998, a boy who was 12 at the time told police that Sandusky had showered with him in the Penn State football locker room during a tour. The boy claimed Sandusky assaulted him during the shower.

During our own investigation, years later, the mother told us that she had been specifically instructed by state police not to speak with reporters.
No charges were filed against Sandusky in 1998. With the mother cowed into silence, the incident remained buried.

No further victims or witnesses spoke up until the 2002 incident that involved Mike McQueary, Paterno and other top university officials.
It appears from the grand jury presentment that the school’s aim was to handle this report very quietly. They succeeded. No one who had been directly involved talked about it at the time. No one.

Sandusky flaunted the so-called “ban” on his bringing kids to campus — in fact, he held Second Mile camps on other Penn State campuses as recently as 2008. We never noticed any sanctions against the former coach because they didn’t really exist.
In the years that followed, still more victims maintained their silence.

That changed in 2009, when a Clinton County boy and a wrestling coach who had witnessed an incident came forward with new allegations. This time, word leaked out in the form of rumors that caught the attention of two reporters: Jan Murphy of The Patriot-News and Sara Ganim, then a reporter with the Centre Daily Times in State College.

Now here’s what a news organization like ours thinks about rumors:
In one sense, they’re worthless. We don’t report a rumor that someone has broken the law.
Would you like it if your neighbor called to tell us that you had been involved in sex abuse and we printed it? We demand at least two or even three independent and highly credible sources to print any anonymous allegation of criminal behavior.

Murphy tracked down sources who confirmed that the rumors were serious but found no one with firsthand, verifiable knowledge of the case.
Sara Ganim had more luck. After a great deal of work, Ganim eventually located and spoke with the victim’s mother. But we needed much more if we were to accuse a Penn State coaching legend of an abhorrent crime.

After Ganim came to The Patriot-News, she continued her reporting in Centre, Mifflin, Clinton and Dauphin counties. She interviewed more than 26 people, often three or four times.

We confirmed their statements in other ways, as well. Sara tracked down a second victim, witnesses and other sources who could talk not only about the Clinton County victim but about what had happened back in 1998.

With enough evidence that we were confident of its accuracy, we published the story on March 31.
The national media ignored it. Locally, we mainly received anger from some readers.

“It truly is troubling to me to see a ‘reputable’ newspaper such as The Patriot-News carrying this type of sensationalist story,” wrote one.

“Shame on those who have tried to defile the legacy that Jerry Sandusky has worked so hard to build,” wrote another.

We stood by the story and more stories followed. We have been told by those with knowledge of the grand jury investigation that our stories prompted additional victims to come forward.

Many of my colleagues here at The Patriot-News are Penn State alumni. Many more of us are Lions fans or have simply admired Joe Paterno. This has been an unbelievably sad week for us along with hundreds of thousands of Penn Staters and millions of Americans who feel the same way.

If we had any inkling of this alleged conduct before 2009 — from any victims, witnesses or those who knew them — we would have investigated it with all the vigor we possess. And we would have been no less careful to deal not in rumors or speculation, but in facts.


How did he still hold camps on Penn State Campus till 2008????

#36 chiefsknitter

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 01:17 PM

http://www.huntingtonnews.net/13183

This situation just keeps getting weirder:

Quote

Ray Gricar came under fire because a 1998 report concerning Sandusky allegedly molesting two boys in a shower did not lead to charges. Under the scope of the findings of the 2011 grand jury, Sandusky admitted to taking a naked shower, touching a boy and asked for forgiveness. However, six weeks later, police closed the case. Gricar disappeared on April 15, 2005. He told his girl friend he was going for a drive. His car was found in a Lewisburg, Pa. parking lot and his laptop missing its hard drive was located in the Susquehanna River, the Patriot News stated. Gricar was declared dead in July 2011, although his body has not been located.

That's strange.

#37 warthog

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 08:50 AM

This is just wrong. There was a Joe Paterno instructional video that was yanked off the shelves last weekend because it had this monster in it with actual kids! What a scum bag. He must have got off knowing that he was fondling kids in front of the world.

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My name is Maximus Decimus Warthog, member of HomeoftheChiefs.com, former season ticket holder of the lower level , loyal servant to the true coach, Martimus Schottenheimer. Father to disenfranchised sons, husband to a non football fanatic wife, and I will see my Chiefs in a Super Bowl, in this life or the next.
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