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Preseason Evaluation: Game 3


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#21 ArrowHEADED

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 06:12 PM

Another A+ paper by Nathan Kent :rolleyes:

People as a whole are bigger, faster, stronger, and taller than people were 30 years ago, not just today's athletes compared to yesterday's athletes.

Getting hit by someone bigger is more painful than getting hit by someone smaller? :blink: WTF it hurts to get hit by anyone. Its not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog, that term applies to football. There are plenty smaller players that know how to hit. Most of the time its just bad luck too, the player ends up in some kind of awkward position, or one or both of the players lower their head instead of paying attention to whats going on. Size has very little to do with it.

Jones has started atleast the first snap of every game? That was Charles that fumbled the very first snap against the Eagles.
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#22 ChiefsChick23

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 06:40 PM

View PostArrowHEADED, on 29 August 2010 - 06:12 PM, said:

Another A+ paper by Nathan Kent :rolleyes:

People as a whole are bigger, faster, stronger, and taller than people were 30 years ago, not just today's athletes compared to yesterday's athletes.

Getting hit by someone bigger is more painful than getting hit by someone smaller? :blink: WTF it hurts to get hit by anyone. Its not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog, that term applies to football. There are plenty smaller players that know how to hit. Most of the time its just bad luck too, the player ends up in some kind of awkward position, or one or both of the players lower their head instead of paying attention to whats going on. Size has very little to do with it.

With all due respect, as a martial artist who engages in full contract drills and sparring (empty hands and weapons), with people who are generally much larger and stronger than I am, you're completely wrong. While the "size of the fight in the dog" helps, sure, it's simple physics that a big guy at full speed with a little guy, the little guy will come out on the worst of it nearly every single time (there's always luck, I suppose).

Being hit by small guys sucks. Being hit by big guys REALLY sucks.
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#23 nathanKent

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Posted 29 August 2010 - 07:03 PM

View PostArrowHEADED, on 29 August 2010 - 06:12 PM, said:

Jones has started atleast the first snap of every game? That was Charles that fumbled the very first snap against the Eagles.

I stand corrected on this point, but you're wrong about everything else.
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#24 ArrowHEADED

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 02:31 PM

View PostChiefsChick23, on 29 August 2010 - 06:40 PM, said:

With all due respect, as a martial artist who engages in full contract drills and sparring (empty hands and weapons), with people who are generally much larger and stronger than I am, you're completely wrong. While the "size of the fight in the dog" helps, sure, it's simple physics that a big guy at full speed with a little guy, the little guy will come out on the worst of it nearly every single time (there's always luck, I suppose).

Being hit by small guys sucks. Being hit by big guys REALLY sucks.

Martial arts, especially with weapons, is neither here nor there. You don't get tackled by men running full speed, and judging by your screen name, you are a woman, so the fact that you spar with people larger and stronger than you holds no water. Do you spar with the entire general population of this country? I was simply stating it hurts to get hit by anyone, whether a big/small guy, and that the size of people in general has increased over the decades, I can't find it anywhere, but you should look it up because its a well known fact.

Physics? I know a little something about boxing, and the closest thing in martial arts to a tackle is a punch being thrown(the tackler being the fist, and the ball carrier being the face getting hit). The physics of throwing a punch is all about momentum and speed, it picks up power as it snowballs from your feet, through your hips, to your shoulders and through your fist. And if you want to get really technical about it, the bigger hits do come from safeties and cornerbacks because they are running at a higher rate of speed, the size does vary but I am going to go out on a limb and say its not that big of a difference between the receiver of the hit and the size of a safety or corner.

You being a martial artist and all, I'm sure you know everything because most do. Whats more violent, mma or football?
"The will to win is important, but the will to prepare is vital."
-Joe Paterno

"You win some, you lose some, you wreck some."
-Dale Earnhardt

"Success is never permanent, and failure is never final."
-Mike Ditka

"When you are down on your back, if you can look up, you can get up."
-Les Brown

"Pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place."
-Lance Armstrong


#25 The_Jonas

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 02:54 PM

View PostArrowHEADED, on 31 August 2010 - 02:31 PM, said:

Martial arts, especially with weapons, is neither here nor there. You don't get tackled by men running full speed, and judging by your screen name, you are a woman, so the fact that you spar with people larger and stronger than you holds no water. Do you spar with the entire general population of this country? I was simply stating it hurts to get hit by anyone, whether a big/small guy, and that the size of people in general has increased over the decades, I can't find it anywhere, but you should look it up because its a well known fact.

Physics? I know a little something about boxing, and the closest thing in martial arts to a tackle is a punch being thrown(the tackler being the fist, and the ball carrier being the face getting hit). The physics of throwing a punch is all about momentum and speed, it picks up power as it snowballs from your feet, through your hips, to your shoulders and through your fist. And if you want to get really technical about it, the bigger hits do come from safeties and cornerbacks because they are running at a higher rate of speed, the size does vary but I am going to go out on a limb and say its not that big of a difference between the receiver of the hit and the size of a safety or corner.

You being a martial artist and all, I'm sure you know everything because most do. Whats more violent, mma or football?
Listen man, Mass and speed equaling impact isn't exactly college level physics.

If you're going to be a dick, at least be right.

Also, FWIW, punching has a helluva lot more in common with throwing than it does tackling. Whereas there are entire martial arts devoted to balance, take downs, and leverage... which TO ME, seem like they might related to tackling a bit more than a punch. Boxing, a sport I have lots of respect for, has nothing to do with tackling anyone. Also, why do you think there are weight classes in boxing, MMA, and wrestling?

. More mass and More speed equal more impact. Yes, bigger and faster makes a difference.

#26 AssKickingBoots

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 03:39 PM

View PostThe_Jonas, on 31 August 2010 - 02:54 PM, said:

Listen man, Mass and speed equaling impact isn't exactly college level physics.

If you're going to be a dick, at least be right.

Also, FWIW, punching has a helluva lot more in common with throwing than it does tackling. Whereas there are entire martial arts devoted to balance, take downs, and leverage... which TO ME, seem like they might related to tackling a bit more than a punch. Boxing, a sport I have lots of respect for, has nothing to do with tackling anyone. Also, why do you think there are weight classes in boxing, MMA, and wrestling?

. More mass and More speed equal more impact. Yes, bigger and faster makes a difference.

Being a big dude (around 215-220 lbs) that fights other big dudes (many of whom are more like 250) in a martial art that probably is more related to tackling (I do Judo and traditional Japanese Ju Jutsu), I agree, bigger makes a huge difference.

In Judo and Ju Jutsu both, one of the biggest aspects is using your opponent's momentum against them (think of a push-pull pass rush move in football terms), which can often help negate size differences. If you didn't see it coming, a little 130 lb high school girl could do a judo throw on you (I speak from experience). However, when you pit two skilled opponents against eachother, size means just as much as skill. It's frustrating sometimes to definitively beat someone in skill and have them power through it anyways, but that's reality, and that applies as much to football as it does to the mat.

Don't get me wrong, when I weighed just 175 I beat a 235 lb guy at a Judo tournament, but I was also probably stronger than him even with the size difference. Also, I often have to mention the 250 lb dude destroyed me at that same tournament. Besides, it's noteworthy because it was the exception, not the rule.

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#27 ArrowHEADED

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 04:06 PM

View PostThe_Jonas, on 31 August 2010 - 02:54 PM, said:

Listen man, Mass and speed equaling impact isn't exactly college level physics.

If you're going to be a dick, at least be right.

Also, FWIW, punching has a helluva lot more in common with throwing than it does tackling. Whereas there are entire martial arts devoted to balance, take downs, and leverage... which TO ME, seem like they might related to tackling a bit more than a punch. Boxing, a sport I have lots of respect for, has nothing to do with tackling anyone. Also, why do you think there are weight classes in boxing, MMA, and wrestling?

. More mass and More speed equal more impact. Yes, bigger and faster makes a difference.


Martial arts, especially with weapons, is neither here nor there - How could I state any clearer that martial arts(boxing included) has nothing to do with a tackle? I am aware of that fact.

I know a little something about boxing, and THE CLOSEST THING IN MARTIAL ARTS to a tackle is a punch being thrown(THE TACKLER BEING THE FIST, AND THE BALL CARRIER BEING THE FACE GETTING HIT). - I say "the closest thing" because there is nothing close in boxing, or martial arts that is like a full on NFL tackle, BUT the science of how a tackle and a punch begin/end is similar. The reason I say a punch instead of a takedown is because during a takedown you are not at full speed, and your opponent is most definitely not going to running at you. During a punch your fist is at full speed like a defender getting ready to tackle.

The motion of throwing a punch and a football are similar, but not much past that.



"The will to win is important, but the will to prepare is vital."
-Joe Paterno

"You win some, you lose some, you wreck some."
-Dale Earnhardt

"Success is never permanent, and failure is never final."
-Mike Ditka

"When you are down on your back, if you can look up, you can get up."
-Les Brown

"Pain is temporary. It may last a minute, or an hour, or a day, or a year, but eventually it will subside and something else will take its place."
-Lance Armstrong


#28 mdchiefsfan

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 04:18 PM

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#29 AssKickingBoots

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 04:19 PM

View PostArrowHEADED, on 31 August 2010 - 04:06 PM, said:

Martial arts, especially with weapons, is neither here nor there - How could I state any clearer that martial arts(boxing included) has nothing to do with a tackle? I am aware of that fact.

I know a little something about boxing, and THE CLOSEST THING IN MARTIAL ARTS to a tackle is a punch being thrown(THE TACKLER BEING THE FIST, AND THE BALL CARRIER BEING THE FACE GETTING HIT). - I say "the closest thing" because there is nothing close in boxing, or martial arts that is like a full on NFL tackle, BUT the science of how a tackle and a punch begin/end is similar. The reason I say a punch instead of a takedown is because during a takedown you are not at full speed, and your opponent is most definitely not going to running at you. During a punch your fist is at full speed like a defender getting ready to tackle.

The motion of throwing a punch and a football are similar, but not much past that.

BS

There is nothing more similar to a good form football tackle in martial arts than a double leg takedown. You might not run 20 yards across the field before you do it (is that what you do in boxing? :scratch:), but you still do it "full speed" if you want to get hung up on that detail. Unless they just plain suck, your opponent probably isn't standing perfectly still waiting for the takedown either. In fact, there's no better time to shoot in than when they are advancing at you.

Quit digging a hole, dude.

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#30 Los Pollos Hermanos

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 04:30 PM

View Postmdchiefsfan, on 31 August 2010 - 04:18 PM, said:

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#31 NOLA

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 04:36 PM

View PostDallasChief, on 31 August 2010 - 04:30 PM, said:

Bears. Beets. Battlestar Galactia.
Michael!

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#32 HG

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 04:47 PM

I look at it this way. Take your pick.

1: Dante Hall and Mike Garrett are on each side of you running at full speed and are the target in the middle.

or

2: John Alt and Willie Roaf are on each side of you running at full speed and are the target in the middle


Which one do you have a better shot at walking away from?

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#33 ChiefsChick23

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 05:53 PM

View PostArrowHEADED, on 31 August 2010 - 02:31 PM, said:

Martial arts, especially with weapons, is neither here nor there. You don't get tackled by men running full speed, and judging by your screen name, you are a woman, so the fact that you spar with people larger and stronger than you holds no water. Do you spar with the entire general population of this country? I was simply stating it hurts to get hit by anyone, whether a big/small guy, and that the size of people in general has increased over the decades, I can't find it anywhere, but you should look it up because its a well known fact.

Physics? I know a little something about boxing, and the closest thing in martial arts to a tackle is a punch being thrown(the tackler being the fist, and the ball carrier being the face getting hit). The physics of throwing a punch is all about momentum and speed, it picks up power as it snowballs from your feet, through your hips, to your shoulders and through your fist. And if you want to get really technical about it, the bigger hits do come from safeties and cornerbacks because they are running at a higher rate of speed, the size does vary but I am going to go out on a limb and say its not that big of a difference between the receiver of the hit and the size of a safety or corner.

You being a martial artist and all, I'm sure you know everything because most do. Whats more violent, mma or football?

Gosh, that's totally not condescending. :rolleyes:

I am well aware that people have been in general getting bigger over the centuries, mainly due to improved diets and general medicine. IMHO, nK's point is not negated by that fact, as good nutrition, general medicine and sports medicine (outside of steroids) do not fully explain how quickly football players have increased in size and weight on average in such a short period of time.

I was sharing my personal experience of being hit at full speed by both small and large people (men and women) using techniques designed to deliver the most power possible in their kicks and punches. Most people I play with are indeed bigger than me because I am shorter than most people, in general. In my personal experience, bigger people tend to hit a lot harder than smaller ones, all other things being equal.

Of course it hurts when you get hit by anyone (well, most people, anyway). But being hit by a bigger guy (all things being equal) hurts a hell of a lot more than a smaller guy. It's the matter of the mass - technique isn't enough to compensate. As stated in other posts, that's why fighting arts typically have weight classes.

That's the only experience I have since I have not played full-on tackle football, because as you state, I'm female and never got to play. I do not understand how my being female negates my point, as I get punched by males and females of a variety of shapes and sizes. :shrug:

AKB and I practice completely different styles, yet both of us have a similar experience. Hm!
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#34 mdchiefsfan

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 06:44 PM

View PostNOLA, on 31 August 2010 - 04:36 PM, said:

Michael!

I was thinking more along the lines of this quote:
"So you got the fax. So why didn’t you add it to the resume? What do you mean? Of course martial arts training is relevant. Oh excuse me! I know about a billion Asians that would beg to differ. Uh, yeah I get a little frustrated when I’m dealing with incompetence." lol
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#35 ChiefsChick23

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 06:47 PM

View Postmdchiefsfan, on 31 August 2010 - 06:44 PM, said:

I was thinking more along the lines of this quote:
"So you got the fax. So why didn’t you add it to the resume? What do you mean? Of course martial arts training is relevant. Oh excuse me! I know about a billion Asians that would beg to differ. Uh, yeah I get a little frustrated when I’m dealing with incompetence." lol

:jester:


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#36 mdchiefsfan

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 06:53 PM

HAHAHA!!
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#37 NOLA

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 08:15 PM


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Homer: [reading] "Project Arcturus couldn't have succeeded without you. This will get you a little closer to that dream of yours. It's not the Dallas Cowboys, but it's a start. Drop me a line if you're on the East Coast, Hank Scorpio." Aw, the Denver Broncos!
Marge: I think owning the Denver Broncos is pretty good.
Homer: Yeah, yeah.
Marge: Well, explain to me why it isn't.
Homer: [sighs] You just don't understand football, Marge.

Check out the voices of the Home of the Chiefs at http://www.homeofthechiefs.com! Updated daily!


#38 nathanKent

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Posted 31 August 2010 - 08:55 PM

View Postmdchiefsfan, on 31 August 2010 - 04:18 PM, said:

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lol
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