18 replies to this topic

[nathanKent]

http://www.homeofthe...13-game-review/

[EstablishedAce]

You took it easy on Cassel compared to my newly formed opinion of him.

[Zig]

 EstablishedAce, on 09 December 2009 - 07:09 AM, said:

You took it easy on Cassel compared to my newly formed opinion of him.

you guys ruined a perfectly servicable QB!

I find it funny how nK can in one paragraph say how going 'max protect' left him 1 or 2 options,(against a very good secondary no less) mention the 7 (at least) drops-not missed catchable balls- drops- and still put all or most the blame on the QB. I saw the graphic someone posted and the 'drop' count was at 7 early in the 3rd quarter! that is just...pathetic lol I'd bet that if that number was even cut in half the game is totally different. But hey, it's all Cassel's fault right?

I don't get to see the games but when a QB is constantly getting pounded, has WRs that can't catch when he does have time...has a center that sails the ball over his head etc etc... I just don't see how any QB is going to look good with what he's dealing with honestly. As we've seen with guys like Carr and Harrington, being in bad situations- and let's face it Cassel is in a bad situation- can take a toll on you. Seriously, I 'd say only the Browns would be a worse situation for a QB. The lions have Megatron and a very good RB, The Rams have one of the best RBs in the league and some good young WRs...what does Cassel have? Maybe 3 or 4 guys on the whole offense that might be starters or more likely 2nd string on most teams...and 1 of those is suspended right now...

I've also seen a few posts about how slow Cassel is so I'm thinking he isn't over that knee injury. His scrambling and ability to throw on the run is one of the main reasons I feel like he can play at the NFL level. He made a lot of good plays last year while scrambling. Of course it helps when the receiver actually catches the ball.

I saw with my own eyes that with a decent o-line and guys that can catch, he can be a decent QB. And I know a lot of football people much smarter than me (or any of us) feel the same way. It's not really fair to be placing all the blame on him imo. No offense but he doesn't have much to work with, and that's putting it nicely.

[BrooklynChiefsFan]

Here's one thing that pisses me off about Cassel...His scrambling talents and ability to make a play on the run are highly touted (for some reason). Not once have I ever seen him pump fake with a DB closing in on him. Even if he's well beyond the line of scrimmage, a pump fake will often create enough hesitation from the defender to add a few yards on the scramble.

There was one such instance where he was one-on-one with a defender last Sunday on 3rd and long. He picked up about 7 and just basically ran into his would be tackler. For a guy who is regarded as heady, and a student of the game - cerebral, if you will - I could not believe he missed an opportunity to use such a tried and true QB maneuver. He was tackled (may have even run out of bounds) about 1.5 yards short of the marker. Had he evaded the defender and gotten the first down, there was a huge running lane to boot, enough for another 10 yards at least probably. If he was the type of QB that had any sort of instincts or feel for the game, he would have gotten past that marker and continued the drive. A true winner picks up that first down, Cassel didn't.

I don't think this is a case of injury limiting his ability. All too often I see him not making the text book plays. His reads suck, and he lacks that field general mentality of a Tom Brady. In short, he doesn't have "it."

[BigRedChiefsMachine]

 Zig, on 09 December 2009 - 09:45 AM, said:

you guys ruined a perfectly servicable QB!

I find it funny how nK can in one paragraph say how going 'max protect' left him 1 or 2 options,(against a very good secondary no less) mention the 7 (at least) drops-not missed catchable balls- drops- and still put all or most the blame on the QB. I saw the graphic someone posted and the 'drop' count was at 7 early in the 3rd quarter! that is just...pathetic lol I'd bet that if that number was even cut in half the game is totally different. But hey, it's all Cassel's fault right?

I don't get to see the games but when a QB is constantly getting pounded, has WRs that can't catch when he does have time...has a center that sails the ball over his head etc etc... I just don't see how any QB is going to look good with what he's dealing with honestly. As we've seen with guys like Carr and Harrington, being in bad situations- and let's face it Cassel is in a bad situation- can take a toll on you. Seriously, I 'd say only the Browns would be a worse situation for a QB. The lions have Megatron and a very good RB, The Rams have one of the best RBs in the league and some good young WRs...what does Cassel have? Maybe 3 or 4 guys on the whole offense that might be starters or more likely 2nd string on most teams...and 1 of those is suspended right now...

I've also seen a few posts about how slow Cassel is so I'm thinking he isn't over that knee injury. His scrambling and ability to throw on the run is one of the main reasons I feel like he can play at the NFL level. He made a lot of good plays last year while scrambling. Of course it helps when the receiver actually catches the ball.

I saw with my own eyes that with a decent o-line and guys that can catch, he can be a decent QB. And I know a lot of football people much smarter than me (or any of us) feel the same way. It's not really fair to be placing all the blame on him imo. No offense but he doesn't have much to work with, and that's putting it nicely.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel.

[Zig]

 BigRedChiefsMachine, on 09 December 2009 - 10:27 AM, said:

This is pretty much exactly how I feel.

Anyone expecting him to be a Manning, Brady or Brees type is going to be disappointed but even those guys couldn't do much with what Cassel has around him.

[D_BoweShow82]

I was never expecting Cassel to be an elite QB(even though we are paying him like one), but the guy is just plain lost in this offense. Like some have said he can not make decisions which leads to sacks or turnovers. When he does get the ball off I see time and time again receivers having to adjust to poorly thrown balls. His accuracy has been terrible the last couple of games. I dont put all the blame on the mans shoulders, but he is still suppose to be the field general and the general isnt getting it done.

[BrooklynChiefsFan]

 Zig, on 09 December 2009 - 10:48 AM, said:

Anyone expecting him to be a Manning, Brady or Brees type is going to be disappointed but even those guys couldn't do much with what Cassel has around him.

I'd settle for Jason Campbell or Alex Smith, but he isn't even bringing that to the table.

[EstablishedAce]

 Zig, on 09 December 2009 - 09:45 AM, said:

you guys ruined a perfectly servicable QB!

I find it funny how nK can in one paragraph say how going 'max protect' left him 1 or 2 options,(against a very good secondary no less) mention the 7 (at least) drops-not missed catchable balls- drops- and still put all or most the blame on the QB. I saw the graphic someone posted and the 'drop' count was at 7 early in the 3rd quarter! that is just...pathetic lol I'd bet that if that number was even cut in half the game is totally different. But hey, it's all Cassel's fault right?

I don't get to see the games but when a QB is constantly getting pounded, has WRs that can't catch when he does have time...has a center that sails the ball over his head etc etc... I just don't see how any QB is going to look good with what he's dealing with honestly. As we've seen with guys like Carr and Harrington, being in bad situations- and let's face it Cassel is in a bad situation- can take a toll on you. Seriously, I 'd say only the Browns would be a worse situation for a QB. The lions have Megatron and a very good RB, The Rams have one of the best RBs in the league and some good young WRs...what does Cassel have? Maybe 3 or 4 guys on the whole offense that might be starters or more likely 2nd string on most teams...and 1 of those is suspended right now...

I've also seen a few posts about how slow Cassel is so I'm thinking he isn't over that knee injury. His scrambling and ability to throw on the run is one of the main reasons I feel like he can play at the NFL level. He made a lot of good plays last year while scrambling. Of course it helps when the receiver actually catches the ball.

I saw with my own eyes that with a decent o-line and guys that can catch, he can be a decent QB. And I know a lot of football people much smarter than me (or any of us) feel the same way. It's not really fair to be placing all the blame on him imo. No offense but he doesn't have much to work with, and that's putting it nicely.

If you are going to bring up Rudy's two bad snaps, then I will bring up Cassel's two botched handoffs. That's soemthing Pop Warner QBs are suppose to know how to do.

And for those 7 drops, how many of those were actually catchable? Sure, receivers are suppose to catch everything that touches their hands but it doesnt help and when they are constantly being lit up by defenders because they are being led into the hits they receive. Maybe, just maybe Randy Moss and Wes Welker caught every pass that Cassle threw their way because they are two of the best in the league. How many teams are blessed with that luxary?

You are right, Cassle is a servicable QB, he is a servicle back up.

[BigRedChiefsMachine]

 BrooklynChiefsFan, on 09 December 2009 - 11:20 AM, said:

I'd settle for Jason Campbell or Alex Smith, but he isn't even bringing that to the table.

Are their offensive lines and RB's coming to?

[milkman]

 EstablishedAce, on 09 December 2009 - 11:21 AM, said:

If you are going to bring up Rudy's two bad snaps, then I will bring up Cassel's two botched handoffs. That's soemthing Pop Warner QBs are suppose to know how to do.

And for those 7 drops, how many of those were actually catchable? Sure, receivers are suppose to catch everything that touches their hands but it doesnt help and when they are constantly being lit up by defenders because they are being led into the hits they receive. Maybe, just maybe Randy Moss and Wes Welker caught every pass that Cassle threw their way because they are two of the best in the league. How many teams are blessed with that luxary?

You are right, Cassle is a servicable QB, he is a servicle back up.

I'd say of those 7 "drops" only 3 of them were actually catchable.

[milkman]

 Zig, on 09 December 2009 - 09:45 AM, said:

I saw with my own eyes that with a decent o-line and guys that can catch, he can be a decent QB. And I know a lot of football people much smarter than me (or any of us) feel the same way. It's not really fair to be placing all the blame on him imo. No offense but he doesn't have much to work with, and that's putting it nicely.

Stat to chew on.

Tom Brady in '07 and this year combined sacked 36 times.

Matt Cassel in '08, sacked 47 times.

[Zig]

OK, fine. Cassel sucks and you're doooomed.

you ain't getting that pick back tho

[BrooklynChiefsFan]

 BigRedChiefsMachine, on 09 December 2009 - 11:49 AM, said:

Are their offensive lines and RB's coming to?

Lollerskates at Rock Cartwright.

[The_Jonas]

 Zig, on 09 December 2009 - 02:22 PM, said:

OK, fine. Cassel sucks and you're doooomed.

you ain't getting that pick back tho

Cassel is exactly the player I thought he was.

All of his weaknesses are the same as last season, they're just magnified by the fact our team sucks. He can't throw downfield accurately, his pocket awareness is atrocious, and he doesn't even pretend to try and get the ball out quickly.

He can scramble, but he often scrambles from a secure pocket right into pressure. I don't really feel he makes good use of his feet.

There's 40 QB's in the NFL (or more) that could have done what Cassel did last season IMO.

There are worse QB's in the NFL by far, but Cassel looks nothing like a franchise QB and in my opinion never has.

[D_BoweShow82]

 The_Jonas, on 09 December 2009 - 07:45 PM, said:

There's 40 QB's in the NFL (or more) that could have done what Cassel did last season IMO.

Name them.

[The_Jonas]

 D_BoweShow82, on 09 December 2009 - 07:47 PM, said:

Name them.

Why? You'd just argue that say... David Carr could not simply because he's never started on an offense like that. He could have been Casselesque in NE had he been in that situation. If you REALLY want me to name 40 I will, but it's stupid because you'll just debate individuals and there's no way to prove it either way.

Orton isn't a good QB, but with a smart playcaller and a great cast, he's pretty solid. Not a long term answer though.

[D_BoweShow82]

 The_Jonas, on 09 December 2009 - 07:49 PM, said:

Why? You'd just argue that say... David Carr could not simply because he's never started on an offense like that. He could have been Casselesque in NE had he been in that situation. If you REALLY want me to name 40 I will, but it's stupid because you'll just debate individuals and there's no way to prove it either way.

Orton isn't a good QB, but with a smart playcaller and a great cast, he's pretty solid. Not a long term answer though.

Which is why its absurd to just say 40 QBs could play just as good.

[The_Jonas]

 D_BoweShow82, on 09 December 2009 - 07:52 PM, said:

Which is why its absurd to just say 40 QBs could play just as good.

Not absurd at all. I mean, look at Kerry Collins.

A completely logical assertion based on precedent.

I can support it, but not prove it.