42 replies to this topic

[warthog]

Perhaps Mizzou Should Bolt to the Big Ten After All

By Mike DeArmond - Posted on 02 December 2009

Traditionally, I've been one of the scoffers whenever someone suggests - and they do it just about every year - that Missouri should drop out of the Big 12 Conference and join the Big Ten.

I'm not scoffing now. Not with the fact - and it is a fact, not a rumor - that the Insight Bowl is even considering inviting a 6-6 Iowa State team to its bowl instead of 8-4 Missouri.

Fortunately, I'm not alone. Big 12 Commissioner Dan Beebe just told me - you can read a teaser to the more complete story due for publication in The Star print edition on Thursday under Breaking News on the sports front - he doesn't like that possibility either.

"I am concerned about a bowl that would select a team that has two less wins and was beaten by that team head to head."

Those are Beebe's exact words.

Now, do they carry any weight?

Not under current Big 12 bowl contracts.

The Big 12 cannot dictate choices to the bowls. And no, there is no rule that says a 6-6 team can't leap over an 8-4 team in the bowl process.

Beebe told me they could considered amending their bowl contracts to make the announced pecking order not a matter of choice.

But the Commish also said that would result in a drop in bowl revenue. The bowls pay for the right to pick and choose.

The underlying truth of a third straight year in which Missouri may be shafted in the bowl process is this.

With the exception of Nebraska and Oklahoma, the Big 12 has become the old Southwest Conference.

Texas, Texas A&M, Oklahoma and Nebraska (in football) have their voices heard first. No one else does.

When I mentioned this to Beebe, he agreed that the current bowl lineup with so many bowls in the state of Texas does favor the Texas schools.

He then suggested a bowl game in Kansas City or St. Louis.

Baloney.

I'll repeat a rant I made some weeks ago that angered Big 12 official Ed Stewart.

The Big 12's bowl agreements and lineup stinks.

Stinks to high heaven.

And if the Big 12 doesn't change that, then Missouri SHOULD petition the Big Ten for admission.

Cut ties with all Big 12 schools except Kansas. Still play the Border War in football and basketball. But tell the rest of the Big 12 to take a hike, that Missouri will take its Kansas City and St. Louis TV markets and play elsewhere.

Maybe the Big Ten (plus one), could then call itself The Real Big 12 Conference.

http://campuscorner....ty.com/node/533

[autodrummer]

Not a bad idea really, except somewhat in basketball, the South pretty much dominates. Because of all the Texas recruits.

[Los Pollos Hermanos]

I don't know why a bowl would choose Iowa State over Missouri but leaving the Big 12 seems like a bit of an over-reaction. The Big 12 is a better conference in football and basketball.

[warthog]

DallasChief, on 03 December 2009 - 07:13 AM, said:

I don't know why a bowl would choose Iowa State over Missouri but leaving the Big 12 seems like a bit of an over-reaction. The Big 12 is a better conference in football and basketball.

I think this is a build up effect. Mizzou fans are really still incensed by the Big 12's lack of support when the Orange Bowl ignorantly chose Kansas of Missouri even though MU was the better team and the better record. Believe me, that little action ran deep in MU fans and the lack of support from the Big 12 for MU is always evident. I used to hate the idea of going to the Big 10, but if this crap keeps up, might as well. Better to be the black sheep in the Big 10 than the black sheep in the Big 12.

[warthog]

Hello, Big Ten, this is Missouri calling
Gabe DeArmond
PowerMizzou.com Publisher

It's time for Mike Alden to make a phone call. Pick up the phone and dial James Delaney, Mr. Alden. Mr. Delaney runs the Big Ten Conference.

Earlier this morning, PowerMizzou.com reported the news that Missouri's seemingly sure-fire bid to the Insight Bowl was in doubt. Word began to leak, and was later confirmed by Missouri officials, that the Insight Bowl-which has the sixth selection among eight Big 12 affiliated bowls-was leaning toward selecting Iowa State over the Tigers.

The same Iowa State that is 6-and-6. The same Iowa State which was beaten 34-24 by Missouri just two weeks ago. The same Iowa State that finished behind Missouri in the North Division standings.

Now, listen, I'm not here to tell you the bowl system is fair. It's not. Nobody even pretends it is. Heck, when I talked to Tony Alba, the Executive Director of the Insight and Fiesta Bowls, even he didn't say it is. When asked about weight being put on overall records and head-to-head results, Alba told me, "They're considerations. If it were the Fiesta Bowl we were talking about it would be a larger factor. With the Insight Bowl, really, we've got to look at crowd following and fan following and that's a game that is not always sold out so we've got to put some people in the seats. It's not a case where we're contractually tied to take a certain place team as we are with the Fiesta Bowl."

So, there you have it. Even the bowl reps admit they run a system that's ridiculous. In the end, does whether you play in the Big 12's No. 6 bowl or No. 8 bowl really matter? Probably not much. But tell that to a Missouri player who is looking at the possibility of a three or four-day trip to Houston to play Navy rather than a five or six-day trip to Arizona to play a Big Ten team. Yeah it matters.

And it matters for other reasons. This would mark the third straight season in which the Tigers have watched a team they beat head to head go to a better bowl. You all know the story about Kansas getting the Orange Bowl bid. That one cause outrage across the country, not just in Columbia. Then, last year, a Nebraska team that Missouri had beaten 52-17 in Lincoln, went to the Gator Bowl while the North champion Tigers shuffled off to the Alamo Bowl.

And you know what? I get being passed over for Nebraska. It's Nebraska. They'd draw 60,000 to an intrasquad scrimmage in a snowstorm played in a cornfield in Grand Island. So there's at least some justification for that.

But Iowa State? Forgive me, Cyclone fans, but Iowa Freaking State? Are you serious? Let's take a look at some numbers:

For an 8-4 team in what was supposed to be a rebuilding year, Missouri drew an average of 64,120 fans to six home games. For a .500 team under a new coach in a year that greatly exceeded expectations, Iowa State drew an average of 46,242 to Jack Trice Stadium. Hell, Iowa State could have sold out every single home game, and still drawn an average of 9,120 fewer fans per game than the Tigers.

Over the last five years, Missouri has averaged 59,630 fans at home. ISU checks in at 47,199. Yeah, you read that right. Missouri's attendance this year was 4,500 above its five year average. Iowa State's was 850 below.

You want more? Both teams played at Arrowhead Stadium. I understand Missouri will have an edge because it's closer and it played Kansas. But the attendance difference between those two games was 29,221. The Cyclones played K-State in Arrowhead. I've got to believe a good number of the 40,000 fans (slightly over half of capacity) were there to see the Cats. There's no way the Clones brought a fraction of the number to KC that Missouri did.

More? I've got it. In the last six years, Missouri has gone to five bowl games. The average attendance for those games has been 53,757. That doesn't include fairly well attended Big 12 championship games in Kansas City and San Antonio. Between 2000 and 2005, Iowa State played in five bowl games. The average attendance was 39,634.

If you run a bowl whose major goal is to put people in the seats, which team are you taking?

And, oh by the way, the last time Missouri played in the Insight Bowl (1998 against West Virginia), the TV ratings were better than the last time Iowa State was there.

Now, I'm sure this comes off as me railing Iowa State. And I'm really not trying to. I've got nothing against the Clones. I think it's phenomenal that they made a bowl game and Paul Rhoads did a hell of a job. And I think those players and coaches and fans absolutely deserve a reward for this season. But they don't deserve a bigger award than Missouri.

One last Cyclone note before I get to the real point of this column, which is shredding the Big 12 Conference. The major reason the Insight Bowl appears infatuated with ISU is that the Cyclones took 20,000 fans the last time they played in the game. That was eight years ago. It also was ISU's first bowl game in 22 years. You think people weren't starving to play in ANY bowl that didn't start with T and end with oilet? I mean, Missouri fans flooded Shreveport, Louisiana in 2003 just because IT WAS A BOWL GAME (Thank the good Lord that seems not to be an option this year, no matter what happens with the Insight Bowl).

Okay, my insulting the fine institution in Ames, Iowa is over. Again, Clone fans, it's nothing against your school or your team. Honestly, I have not one issue with Iowa State, have some friends that went there and would love for you to go to a bowl game every year.

My bigger issue is with the Big three-and-a-half Conference in which Missouri plays. And, no, that's not a typo. Keep Texas, Oklahoma, A&M and, to a lesser extent, Nebraska happy and the league bigwigs don't particularly seem to give a rat's behind what anyone else says. They've moved most of the conference championship events to Dallas. They even moved the league offices there.

Three years in a row, Missouri will go to a bowl game that seems at least one rung below what it deserves. Maybe you think it's not a big deal. I do. What happens next year if the Tigers are up for a spot in the Holiday Bowl? Maybe those bowl reps look at it and think, "Missouri has been passed over three years in a row. There must be something to this. We can't take the chance they won't fill our stadium." And Missouri goes back to El Paso.

It's not just Missouri. It could happen with anyone in this league that hasn't been a football powerhouse for decades. The PAC-10 has a rule that the Holiday Bowl has to take its second place team. I'm sure the Holiday would LOVE a chance to get USC this year. But if the Trojans lose to Arizona this weekend, or if Oregon State beats Oregon, they don't have a choice. They HAVE to take the second place team. I don't know the inner workings of the Big Ten, but I've been told that league more or less places its teams in bowls. If you're in the SEC, 8-4 gets you to a New Year's Day bowl. Nobody's bickering over the Insight or the Texas there. And, oh by the way, the teams in the Big Ten and the SEC actually get their games on TV for more than a 29-mile radius a few times a year.

It's been whispered, especially by fans in the North cities, for years that the Big 12 doesn't do a good job taking care of its members. I agree. I've seen enough over the past three years to agree.

James Delaney, do you want a 12th team? You want to have a conference championship game in football that will make your league a gazillion dollars? I've got a team that ought to be looking. Then Dan Beebe could go get TCU and move the Big 12's equator a few miles further toward Texas.

And, for the record, Missouri could still end up in the Insight. But if they do, it won't be one bit of thanks due to the Big 12 Conference. And I won't retract a word of what I wrote.

http://missouri.riva...asp?CID=1023876

[Dom]

I think they should do it. The Big 10 would be a lot easier to dominate. Who would move into the Big 12 though?

[warthog]

Dom, on 03 December 2009 - 12:38 PM, said:

I think they should do it. The Big 10 would be a lot easier to dominate. Who would move into the Big 12 though?

They'd snatch up TCU in a second. That way the Texas hold on the conference would be consolidated.

[autodrummer]

Again money overrides everything.

[GatorSVT]

Or add Boise State, Colorado State, or Utah/BYU. They would fit in the North. 

[Coach]

Big XII in Football > Big (11) 10 Football

Big XII in Basketball =/>/< Big (11) 10 Basketball (An argument can be made either way.)

Missouri isn't going anywhere anyways. This was a waste of an article anyways. The dumbass who wrote this, must had been snortin some serious paint spray.

[Dom]

Looks like things are heating up, at least on the Big 10's side
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alvarez: Big Ten to push for 12th team

Wisconsin athletic director Barry Alvarez says the Big Ten will soon make a more aggressive push toward adding a 12th member.

Speaking to Wisconsin's athletic board on Friday, Alvarez, the former longtime Badgers football coach, said the conference already has investigated possibilities for expansion "from all over the country." And though he places no timetable on the search, Alvarez thinks conference commissioner Jim Delany will respond to a group of athletic directors and coaches who want expansion.

Penn State football coach Joe Paterno has been the most vocal advocate of a 12th Big Ten team, and he has support from several of his fellow coaches.

A 12th team would allow the Big Ten to split into divisions and hold a conference championship game. The Big Ten typically ends its football season two weeks before the other BCS conferences, though the addition of a permanent bye week in 2010 will shrink the gap by a week.

"We're irrelevant for the last three weeks of the football season because we're not playing," Alvarez said Friday.

Paterno has stumped for expansion several times, but Delany -- who was unavailable for comment -- told ESPN.com this spring that the league has no immediate plans to add a 12th team.

"There's not an obvious move," Delany said in May. "There might be to some coaches, including Coach Paterno, but it's not as obvious to the university presidents and to the athletic directors.

"There are a lot [of schools] that could take a lot away, but there aren't a lot that could bring so much to make the choice an easy one. You have to have a lot to make something go like this, and it's broader than really a championship game or a basketball tournament."

The Big Ten most recently expanded with Penn State, which began competing as a league member in football in 1993. The league has made runs at Notre Dame but hasn't had serious discussions for several years.

http://sports.espn.g...tory?id=4735336

[warthog]

Big Ten Expansion Will Hit College Football Like a Tidal Wave
by Pete Misthaufen

ESPN reported recently that Wisconsin athletic director and former head coach Barry Alvarez told the Wisconsin athletic board that the Big Ten will soon make a big push for a 12th member.

The idea of the first Big Ten expansion since 1993's addition of Penn State is looming very large, indeed, and the impact will be felt in more than the Big Ten and the Big East or Big 12 when they lose a team.

Indeed, a Big Ten expansion (with maybe a change in name to the Great 12 or something) will set off a chain of events that will largely reshape the college football world.

First off, since Notre Dame will most likely not agree to membership in the Big Ten (and I will leave it others to discuss that relationship), it leaves the Big East and Big 12 as likely targets.

The Big 12 has Iowa State, Missouri, and Nebraska, while the Big East has Pitt, Rutgers, Syracuse, and West Virginia. This is a good discussion of the Big Ten expansion possibilities.

The name of the game is television, and increasing television market share will be a key factor at hand.



The First Wave: The Big East Scenario

If the Big Ten goes east, then the Big East will again be looking to raid Conference USA (or maybe even the MAC).

In its last expansion, the Big East grabbed one good football and basketball school (Louisville, which has since declined greatly), one good basketball school (Cincy, which now plays good football), and one geographic school for Florida recruiting (USF, which has never finished in the final polls).

So, the Big East's targets will most likely be schools like Memphis (which recently hired former the former Big East commissioner as a consultant to get Memphis into an AQ conference), East Carolina, Marshall, Central Florida (jilted by the Big East last time), Temple (a Big East member only a few years ago), and Buffalo (the only SUNY school with a FBS football team).

Given its situation with its eight non-FBS playing schools, the departure of Rutgers or Pitt may actually force a resolution of the Big East's supersized nature, freeing the Big East to expand to 10 or 12 teams.

CUSA most likely would then invite Louisiana Tech as well as a Sun Belt team or two to join the rebuilt the conference.

With a Big Ten expansion to the East, the first wave would most likely end there, with no other immediate consequences for the conferences further west like the Big 12, MWC, and Pac-10.



The First Wave: Big 12 Scenario

If the Big Ten decides to go south instead, Missouri would be the most likely new addition.

As such, the Big 12 would need a new school to fill a void in the Big 12 North.

The MWC is the most likely conference target for the Big 12, and three schools are really the most logical possibilities.

BYU is a large university with a large stadium and a three-decade history of playing on the national stage in college football. BYU has a lot of alums and followers throughout Big 12 country and could actually bring pretty good-sized crowds to away games (BYU brings about 10,000 or so fans for games at TCU, for example, and brought 15,000 or so to the game against Oklahoma at Cowboys Stadium).

Colorado State is a decent sized state school, but would bring little to the Big 12 it does not already have.

TCU would seem a prefect fit, but it will not happen.

First, Baylor, Texas A&M, and Texas Tech would all strongly object. They have already fallen way behind TCU and would only be hurt more by having to lose to Frogs every year.

Second, a divisional realignment would need to take place. While this could be solved by having Tech or Oklahoma State move to the Big 12 North (where either team would have a much easier time winning), it still would not be a simple matter.

Third, the Big 12 already owns the Dallas-Fort Worth media market. While some have argued that this is changing, the Big 12 still believes it does not need a team in the region in order to dominate one of the largest media markets in the country.

Fourth, adding a fifth Texas school would really hurt the Big 12 North schools with their Texas recruiting.

Now, Utah could also be a target, but the Utes are looking most likely looking west for their move. Plus, the Utes lack the large number of travelling fans.

So, if BYU went to the Big 12, the MWC would immediately invite Boise State into the conference.

The WAC would further decline in relevancy but could do nothing about it.

So, again, the first wave would be over with no impact on schools in the south or east.



The Second Wave

With the Big Ten expanding to 12 teams, the pressure will increase on the Big East and Pac-10 to also go to 12 teams.

First would be the direct pressure. Already Big East schools have the easiest path to a BCS game, needing only to play seven conference games to get there.

Of the eight Big East schools, only Pitt, Syracuse, and West Virginia have anything that resembles even a decent football tradition, with the other five schools looking largely like jumped up CUSA schools (oh, but most of them are...).

There are already rumors of pressure being applied to the Big East to expand to 12 football teams and such will increase.

Likewise, rumors of a Pac-12 in 2011 have been going around already. With the Big Ten going to 12, the Pac-10 would most likely follow suit as well, finally get around to its long discussed expansion.

The most likely targets are Colorado and Utah, for reasons that have been discussed elsewhere.

Poaching a MWC and Big 12 team would again cause immediate changes to the football world, as both conferences would again scramble to maintain status.



Realigned Football World

So with three BCS automatic qualifying (AQ) conferences expanding in 2011, the results will reshape the college football world.

The MWC and CUSA would be the most directly impacted, as both conferences would be gutted of some of their top schools.

The ripple effects could completely devastate the conferences, along with the Sun Belt, MAC, and WAC.

A 12-team Big East would most likely invite schools like Central Florida, East Carolina, Marshall, and Memphis from Conference USA and Temple or Buffalo from the MAC as mentioned above.

As such, Conference USA would lose most of its Eastern Division.

But that would not be the only impact on CUSA, as the MWC would attempt to rebuild the conference in order to continue at its near BCS status.

And if they wanted to maintain that status, it is likely that they would need to also go to 12 teams, which might be particularly hard after losing three programs.

A large-scale MWC expansion would hurt both the WAC and CUSA's West Division. Both conferences would likely drop down to further irrelevancy after these raids.

Possible conference realignments:



Big East

Memphis, Central Florida, Marshall, and Temple

North division: UConn, Pitt, Rutgers, Syracuse, Temple, Marshall

South division: Central Florida, Cincy, Louisville, Memphis, South Florida, and West Virginia



Big Ten

Missouri

River division: Indiana, Illinois, Missouri, Ohio State, Penn State, and Purdue

Lakes division: Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Northwestern, and Wisconsin



Big 12

BYU and Colorado State (both going to the Big 12 North)

Big 12 North: BYU, Colorado State, Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, and Nebraska

Big 12 South: Baylor, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas A&M, and Texas Tech



MWC

Add Boise, Fresno, Houston, Nevada, SMU, and Tulsa

West: Boise State, Fresno State, Nevada, New Mexico, San Diego State, and UNLV

East: Air Force, Houston, SMU, TCU, Tulsa, and Wyoming



Pac-12

Colorado and Utah

South division: Arizona, Arizona State, Cal, Stanford, UCLA, and USC

North division: Colorado, Oregon, Oregon State, Utah, Washington, and Washington State



Fallout on Non-AQ Conferences

With these expansions, conferences such as the WAC and CUSA will be especially hit hard.

A 12-team Big East will essentially be WV, Pitt, and a bunch of former CUSA teams.

The rebuilt MWC 12 will grab from both CUSA and the WAC.

The remaining teams of the WAC (Hawaii, San Jose State, New Mexico State, Idaho, Utah State, Louisiana Tech) would be hard pressed to stay together, as Louisiana Tech and New Mexico State would likely go with the remaining CUSA schools (Tulane, Southern Miss, East Carolina, UTEP, UAB, and Rice).

CUSA would then add a few schools from the Sun Belt (Arkansas State, Louisiana Lafayette, Louisiana-Monroe, Middle Tennessee State, North Texas, and Troy are all possible invites) to rebuild the 10- or 12-team CUSA.

As such, the four remaining WAC schools would either need to go independent or consider dropping down to FCS level.

The Sun Belt could restock with some of the schools looking to move to FBS status in Texas, such as UT-San Antonio and Texas State.



Will the MWC Survive?

For the MWC and TCU, it will be challenge to maintain its bid for BCS automatic qualifying status.

But it would be, in essence, the only realistic source for a non-AQ BCS at-large bid, even if it did not become the seventh BCS AQ conference.

Some might even argue that the MWC could be the conference to lose out in the case of these conference realignments.

Given that the MWC appears to be ready to invite Boise State this offseason to begin play in 2011, the WAC will already have lost its best team well before some of these other realignments occur.

Even if BYU, Colorado State, and Utah leave the MWC, a conference with both TCU and Boise State will be a real contender. Add in Houston and Fresno, and the conference may come out okay in the end.

TCU, unfortunately, will be a victim of circumstances beyond its control again. After being left behind by the demise of the SWC and the Big East raid of CUSA, TCU finally has a home. It would be unfortunate if the Frogs were left behind again.

Sure, TCU might find a spot in the Big 12 instead of Colorado State or BYU.

However, the Rams looks like the necessary team for the Colorado market, one of the top markets for the Big 12 currently, and one that will assume increased importance if Missouri goes to the Big Ten.

BYU has a much bigger following and a much bigger name than TCU, besides bringing in a new market for the Big 12.



Conclusion

Any Big Ten expansion will have serious, long-term consequences for the world of college football. We will see a lot of realignment and maybe the end of certain conferences.

A move to 12 teams by the Big Ten, Big East, and Pac-10 would mean seven more schools would receive BCS status.

If a 12-team Mountain West Conference received the coveted seventh spot among BCS conferences as well, then 19 schools currently on the outside would receive the BCS gold star of quality.

At 85 BCS conference teams, it is likely that the spot for non-AQ schools will disappear.

With 85 teams, there should also be a serious move at dividing the FBS in two as well, just the 1978 division that created I-AA (now known as FCS).

The tidal wave of Big Ten expansion will completely reshape the college football world.

http://bleacherrepor...tidal-wave#poll

[HG]

This is just so wrong. Removing the KU/Mizzou rivalry is like CHiefs and Raiders not in the same division.

[Los Pollos Hermanos]

The Big 12 could just get Missouri State to take their place. They have a better basketball program.

[Dom]

DallasChief, on 15 December 2009 - 09:53 AM, said:

The Big 12 could just get Missouri State to take their place. They have a better basketball program.

haha I wish. We are not even an option, football is at FCS level and the only real option for us would be to go to COnference USA (FBS) To be D-I football there is certain attendance requirements you have to meet, but I agree Missouri State is the best basketball team in the state... this year. Anderson will have his crew ready next year.

[Dom]

HG, on 15 December 2009 - 09:47 AM, said:

This is just so wrong. Removing the KU/Mizzou rivalry is like CHiefs and Raiders not in the same division.

It's been proposed that if Mizzou did infact leave the conference that they would replace the Illinois rivalry game with KU. Mizzou and Illinois play in St. Louis every year for football and basketball. They could swap that for KU in Kansas City.

[Dom]

Read something a little earlier that said Mizzou would keep their options open if the Big Ten made a proposal to them. They said something like "doing whats best for us academically and athletically"

[warthog]

Well, the Big 12 shitting on them during the last three bowl seasons didn't help matters at all. I doubt their sorry though, Texas, the owner of the Big 12, probably wouldn't mind seeing them go.

[Dom]

I can't see how the Texas schools would be in favor of bringing in a TCU though with that virtually killing recruiting at Texas A&M and Tech.

They would have to bring in BYU or Colorado State

[warthog]

Dom, on 15 December 2009 - 08:22 PM, said:

I can't see how the Texas schools would be in favor of bringing in a TCU though with that virtually killing recruiting at Texas A&M and Tech.

They would have to bring in BYU or Colorado State

Or both. Colorado is seriously thinking of going Pac 10. That way the Big 12 North can become the WAC East.