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*** Chiefs 2018 Offseason Thread ***
#61
(01-19-2018, 03:00 PM)The_Jonas Wrote:
(01-19-2018, 12:07 PM)ChiefsChick23 Wrote: I've been sick and offline for a couple of days and how does Bob Sutton still have a job at 1 Arrowhead Drive?

I don't think Sutton did a good job, but I also don't think this defense is very good.  I think KC fans are a bit delusional about the talent level.

Quick.. name the top 3 players from last years defense.

1.  Justin Houston.  Great player, not what he used to be.  

2.  Marcus Peters - A great cover guy who doesn't tackle.

3.  Chris Jones - Who put up mediocre stats because he takes too many plays off, but is CAPABLE of being a force.  Most of the time though, you wonder where the hell he is..

The secondary is good with Berry.  Without Berry we were starting two guys who were mediocre back ups (Sorenson, and it's generous to call Mitchell 'mediocre') and our nickle CB (Gaines) was a liability so great it's hard to imagine a scrub off of the street not performing better.

LB corps was missing it's weakside pass rushers ALL SEASON.  No Hali.  No ford.  Frank Zombo was our weak side edge rusher.  Yikes.   That leaves Houston as the only legit pass rusher on the whole team.

DJ has no range anymore, no matter how well he knows how to do his job.  

The only guy who really emerged as a good player this season was Ragland, and he still has a way to go before he's a really good, let alone great, player.  

KC needs to seriously improve the talent level on the defense, and that's the fault of the personnel department and arguably the position coaches who are tasked with developing their individual skills.

I could understand firing or retaining him.  Changing coaches alone won't improve the defense nearly enough.

Totally agree. This may be kind of a truism, but Sutton's best years as a coordinator both here and with the Jets had better talent than the Chiefs did last season. Give him some more talent, particularly guys that are versatile and can fill multiple roles, and he can scheme to their strengths.

They need better first string players, not just backups. This is especially true with the likely retirement and/or decline of some players (Hali, DJ). Guys like Sorenson are fine as role players and backups, but even despite some play making ability he has still shown he isn't an every down player. There are really only a handful of players that are above reasonable criticism, there are spots that can be improved at every level of the defense.

If we don't spend most of our draft capital on defense, we're wasting our time. It actually would be difficult to improve much on offense statistically, not that we can't or shouldn't try. We just can make up a lot more ground on defense.
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#62
(01-19-2018, 04:30 PM)asskickingboots Wrote:
(01-19-2018, 03:00 PM)The_Jonas Wrote:
(01-19-2018, 12:07 PM)ChiefsChick23 Wrote: I've been sick and offline for a couple of days and how does Bob Sutton still have a job at 1 Arrowhead Drive?

I don't think Sutton did a good job, but I also don't think this defense is very good.  I think KC fans are a bit delusional about the talent level.

Quick.. name the top 3 players from last years defense.

1.  Justin Houston.  Great player, not what he used to be.  

2.  Marcus Peters - A great cover guy who doesn't tackle.

3.  Chris Jones - Who put up mediocre stats because he takes too many plays off, but is CAPABLE of being a force.  Most of the time though, you wonder where the hell he is..

The secondary is good with Berry.  Without Berry we were starting two guys who were mediocre back ups (Sorenson, and it's generous to call Mitchell 'mediocre') and our nickle CB (Gaines) was a liability so great it's hard to imagine a scrub off of the street not performing better.

LB corps was missing it's weakside pass rushers ALL SEASON.  No Hali.  No ford.  Frank Zombo was our weak side edge rusher.  Yikes.   That leaves Houston as the only legit pass rusher on the whole team.

DJ has no range anymore, no matter how well he knows how to do his job.  

The only guy who really emerged as a good player this season was Ragland, and he still has a way to go before he's a really good, let alone great, player.  

KC needs to seriously improve the talent level on the defense, and that's the fault of the personnel department and arguably the position coaches who are tasked with developing their individual skills.

I could understand firing or retaining him.  Changing coaches alone won't improve the defense nearly enough.

Totally agree. This may be kind of a truism, but Sutton's best years as a coordinator both here and with the Jets had better talent than the Chiefs did last season. Give him some more talent, particularly guys that are versatile and can fill multiple roles, and he can scheme to their strengths.

They need better first string players, not just backups. This is especially true with the likely retirement and/or decline of some players (Hali, DJ). Guys like Sorenson are fine as role players and backups, but even despite some play making ability he has still shown he isn't an every down player. There are really only a handful of players that are above reasonable criticism, there are spots that can be improved at every level of the defense.

If we don't spend most of our draft capital on defense, we're wasting our time. It actually would be difficult to improve much on offense statistically, not that we can't or shouldn't try. We just can make up a lot more ground on defense.

Yeah.  

The thing about Sutton that can totally justify his firing is how frequently he dropped Houston into coverage.  

When he has ONE pass rusher, he probably shouldn't be dropping him into coverage 30% of the time.
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#63
Not to imply that I think the problem on D is just Sutton.

But that's the thing we can fix RIGHT THE HELL NOW.

Agreed, need talent upgrades in the offseason.

I really, really hope DJ and Hali retire with honor and become beloved local Chiefs icons.  We are weak on the line. We are weak at LB.  We are STUPID WEAK at Corner.  Safety is fine if Berry comes back strong (I do like Ron Parker).
[Image: CC23sig3copy.gif]
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#64
(01-21-2018, 09:37 AM)ChiefsChick23 Wrote: Not to imply that I think the problem on D is just Sutton.

But that's the thing we can fix RIGHT THE HELL NOW.

Agreed, need talent upgrades in the offseason.

I really, really hope DJ and Hali retire with honor and become beloved local Chiefs icons.  We are weak on the line. We are weak at LB.  We are STUPID WEAK at Corner.  Safety is fine if Berry comes back strong (I do like Ron Parker).

I wouldn't think it'd be the worst thing to fire Sutton. It's justifiable. I just don't know how much it will really help and who would be an upgrade. I don't want to fire the dude without a plan that actually improves things.

Kris Richard the Seahawks DC is likely to be let go, but it's kind of difficult to tell from a distance how much of this down year was his fault and how much was injuries. You could easily make the case we'd be firing Sutton to bring on a guy who had some similar problems and circumstances. The other names I've seen have been less impressive than that.

If someone has a perfect candidate I'd be more than happy to entertain the thought, but if Sutton were retiring or getting fired it probably already would have happened.
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#65
Fire Sutton.

Lebeau is available.

I can't believe Vrable would fire him.  Looks like the "patriot way' is already gonna do it's stupid shit in Tennessee.  They just can't figure out it doesn't work without Brady and Belichick.
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#66
(01-21-2018, 09:37 AM)ChiefsChick23 Wrote: Not to imply that I think the problem on D is just Sutton.

But that's the thing we can fix RIGHT THE HELL NOW.

Agreed, need talent upgrades in the offseason.

I really, really hope DJ and Hali retire with honor and become beloved local Chiefs icons.  We are weak on the line. We are weak at LB.  We are STUPID WEAK at Corner.  Safety is fine if Berry comes back strong (I do like Ron Parker).

I wasn't trying to imply that you were implying anything.  (geez, implication inception!)I was just kinda reacting.

With a top DC now on the market, I want Sutton gone.  

Lebeau to KC!
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#67
Lebeau would be worth trying. I still bet they retain Sutton.
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#68
Using hindsight to judge the Chiefs 2017 offseason moves. It seems mostly encouraging, though some moves were Dorsey's (cutting Maclin) and some were Veach.

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2018/1/22...the-chiefs
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#69
(10 hours ago)asskickingboots Wrote: Using hindsight to judge the Chiefs 2017 offseason moves. It seems mostly encouraging, though some moves were Dorsey's (cutting Maclin) and some were Veach.

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2018/1/22...the-chiefs

The worst move was trading a 5th round pick for a flat out terrible offensive lineman.  

Erving wasn't worth a bag of footballs, let alone a draft pick and I don't think we needed a whole season to know that.  Hated that trade, but LOVED the Ragland trade... which appears to have worked out very well.  Both were Veach moves.

I think Maclin was gone regardless of who was GM just based on what the coaches saw from Hill in training camp.  I think that led to his release more than anything.
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#70
(Yesterday, 02:30 PM)asskickingboots Wrote: Lebeau would be worth trying. I still bet they retain Sutton.

I think at this point it's obvious he's not going anywhere.

I don't dislike Sutton and will defend him to a certain point, but Lebeau is one of a very select group of DC's (schwartz, Phillips, others I"m forgetting) that are just on the highest echelon of quality DC's.  Kinda weird that the really great DC's tend to be bad head coaches.

He is 80 though, but hey... maybe Andy can keep him around until he's in the grave like he did with Jim Johnson.
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