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Chiefs Week 11 @ Giants, Normal As Hell Game
#51
(11-22-2017, 08:51 AM)NOLA Wrote:
(11-22-2017, 12:22 AM)warthog Wrote:
(11-21-2017, 03:16 PM)KIJThe_Jonas Wrote: Here's how you stop the chiefs.  Pittsburgh showed the world.  Dallas piled on, and now it's obvious even trash defenses can shut down the gimmicky college stuff.  

Do these things:

1.  Don't try to make too many plays behind the Line of scrimmage against the run.  Hold your gaps, hold contain, and don't let KC run the ball or use those gimmicky screens on you.  

2.  Run cover 2 zone frequently, which requires a QB to make deeper throws to break it.  

3.  Force the chiefs to do what they go out of their way to avoid:  Force them to call drop back passing plays.

Even when KC was playing well, Kc would only call 10 or 15 drop back passing plays.  The staff clearly does not trust the QB to be an actual QB.  Instead we're running this college shit, and like most of that gimmicky stuff, the shelf life was short.

Bottom line is teams have a template to beat them, and the Giants just showed that ANYONE can do it.  

Peterson asks Wentz, a second year player, to do more drop-back-and-read-a-defense plays than KC asks of their 13 year veteran.  

The offense is dead in the water with Smith right now.  Regression to the mean.  Alex has simply returned to being the guy he's been for the past 4 years.  Until KC can run a big boy passing offense, this season is dead.

This team isn't winning anything this year.  Start the rookie.

I agree.  The worst part of it is that we had 2 weeks to change things up and we did nothing.  The staff had to know that the script was out there to beat us, yet we stayed pat.  Alex Smith might win us a division, but will lose in the first round.  Ive seen that play before.  Throw in the rookie for the rest of the season, and let him take his lumps.

Counterpoint: don't throw the rookie in at the end of his rookie season to bear the unreasonable expectations that will come with taking over a team in 1st place and still in the playoff hunt, let him have an entire season to redshirt plus another offseason to prepare, and then come in next year.  I've seen enough 1st rounders ruined by unreasonable expectations too early in their careers, and PHII is not saving this season anyway, nor should he be expected to.  I don't see the benefit in potentially undermining his potential to rub Alex's nose in his own mediocrity.  I have to imagine that dude know he's gone after January anyway.

I don't think rookie QB's are ruined by expectations.  

Rookie QB's are ruined by being on terrible teams with bad coaches and put in situations that don't allow them to grow.  I don't think any of those things apply to the Chiefs.  

I agree he's not saving the season, but I don't think he harms the season given how awful the offense has been in the past 2 games against a mediocre defense and then a completely awful one.  Honestly, the AFC west is shit and I expect KC to make the playoffs with either guy and finish as they usually do... with a 1 and done against a good defense in cold weather.

I think there is immense potential benefit to playing him now and getting him some game time experience and potentially his first playoff start.  Getting timing down with Kelce and Tyreek now instead of later for one thing.  I don't think Wentz would be doing what he's doing had the Eagles started Chase Daniel last season.  Same thing with the Rams benching Keenum for Goff.  Goff wasn't ready then (having shit coach Jeff Fisher didn't help either), but that playing time likely helped him immensely grow in the offseason.

It's not like he's taking snaps with our offense in practice.  He runs some scout team plays.  That's it.   He's had time to learn the offense.  He's had time to adjust to the NFL expectations.  He's not improving by sitting at this point.   There's limited practice time and the starting QB gets every snap.

I'm not suggesting Mahomes to save the season, I'm suggesting it because I see no benefit to not doing so.   The only potential drawback is that he could be injured... but anyone on the field could be injured.  That's football.
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#52
(11-25-2017, 11:36 AM)The_Jonas Wrote:
(11-22-2017, 08:51 AM)NOLA Wrote:
(11-22-2017, 12:22 AM)warthog Wrote:
(11-21-2017, 03:16 PM)KIJThe_Jonas Wrote: Here's how you stop the chiefs.  Pittsburgh showed the world.  Dallas piled on, and now it's obvious even trash defenses can shut down the gimmicky college stuff.  

Do these things:

1.  Don't try to make too many plays behind the Line of scrimmage against the run.  Hold your gaps, hold contain, and don't let KC run the ball or use those gimmicky screens on you.  

2.  Run cover 2 zone frequently, which requires a QB to make deeper throws to break it.  

3.  Force the chiefs to do what they go out of their way to avoid:  Force them to call drop back passing plays.

Even when KC was playing well, Kc would only call 10 or 15 drop back passing plays.  The staff clearly does not trust the QB to be an actual QB.  Instead we're running this college shit, and like most of that gimmicky stuff, the shelf life was short.

Bottom line is teams have a template to beat them, and the Giants just showed that ANYONE can do it.  

Peterson asks Wentz, a second year player, to do more drop-back-and-read-a-defense plays than KC asks of their 13 year veteran.  

The offense is dead in the water with Smith right now.  Regression to the mean.  Alex has simply returned to being the guy he's been for the past 4 years.  Until KC can run a big boy passing offense, this season is dead.

This team isn't winning anything this year.  Start the rookie.

I agree.  The worst part of it is that we had 2 weeks to change things up and we did nothing.  The staff had to know that the script was out there to beat us, yet we stayed pat.  Alex Smith might win us a division, but will lose in the first round.  Ive seen that play before.  Throw in the rookie for the rest of the season, and let him take his lumps.

Counterpoint: don't throw the rookie in at the end of his rookie season to bear the unreasonable expectations that will come with taking over a team in 1st place and still in the playoff hunt, let him have an entire season to redshirt plus another offseason to prepare, and then come in next year.  I've seen enough 1st rounders ruined by unreasonable expectations too early in their careers, and PHII is not saving this season anyway, nor should he be expected to.  I don't see the benefit in potentially undermining his potential to rub Alex's nose in his own mediocrity.  I have to imagine that dude know he's gone after January anyway.

I don't think rookie QB's are ruined by expectations.  

Rookie QB's are ruined by being on terrible teams with bad coaches and put in situations that don't allow them to grow.  I don't think any of those things apply to the Chiefs.  

I agree he's not saving the season, but I don't think he harms the season given how awful the offense has been in the past 2 games against a mediocre defense and then a completely awful one.  Honestly, the AFC west is shit and I expect KC to make the playoffs with either guy and finish as they usually do... with a 1 and done against a good defense in cold weather.

I think there is immense potential benefit to playing him now and getting him some game time experience and potentially his first playoff start.  Getting timing down with Kelce and Tyreek now instead of later for one thing.  I don't think Wentz would be doing what he's doing had the Eagles started Chase Daniel last season.  Same thing with the Rams benching Keenum for Goff.  Goff wasn't ready then (having shit coach Jeff Fisher didn't help either), but that playing time likely helped him immensely grow in the offseason.

It's not like he's taking snaps with our offense in practice.  He runs some scout team plays.  That's it.   He's had time to learn the offense.  He's had time to adjust to the NFL expectations.  He's not improving by sitting at this point.   There's limited practice time and the starting QB gets every snap.

I'm not suggesting Mahomes to save the season, I'm suggesting it because I see no benefit to not doing so.   The only potential drawback is that he could be injured... but anyone on the field could be injured.  That's football.

I don't really think I have a point-by-point rebuttal to this, I just think I fundamentally disagree.  I'd rather let Mahomes ride this out through the season, go through another camp, and see him start fresh next year.  Really.  I think that would be better.  I do think that throwing him now would not be beneficial to him or the team.
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#53
(11-25-2017, 10:47 PM)NOLA Wrote:
(11-25-2017, 11:36 AM)The_Jonas Wrote:
(11-22-2017, 08:51 AM)NOLA Wrote:
(11-22-2017, 12:22 AM)warthog Wrote:
(11-21-2017, 03:16 PM)KIJThe_Jonas Wrote: Here's how you stop the chiefs.  Pittsburgh showed the world.  Dallas piled on, and now it's obvious even trash defenses can shut down the gimmicky college stuff.  

Do these things:

1.  Don't try to make too many plays behind the Line of scrimmage against the run.  Hold your gaps, hold contain, and don't let KC run the ball or use those gimmicky screens on you.  

2.  Run cover 2 zone frequently, which requires a QB to make deeper throws to break it.  

3.  Force the chiefs to do what they go out of their way to avoid:  Force them to call drop back passing plays.

Even when KC was playing well, Kc would only call 10 or 15 drop back passing plays.  The staff clearly does not trust the QB to be an actual QB.  Instead we're running this college shit, and like most of that gimmicky stuff, the shelf life was short.

Bottom line is teams have a template to beat them, and the Giants just showed that ANYONE can do it.  

Peterson asks Wentz, a second year player, to do more drop-back-and-read-a-defense plays than KC asks of their 13 year veteran.  

The offense is dead in the water with Smith right now.  Regression to the mean.  Alex has simply returned to being the guy he's been for the past 4 years.  Until KC can run a big boy passing offense, this season is dead.

This team isn't winning anything this year.  Start the rookie.

I agree.  The worst part of it is that we had 2 weeks to change things up and we did nothing.  The staff had to know that the script was out there to beat us, yet we stayed pat.  Alex Smith might win us a division, but will lose in the first round.  Ive seen that play before.  Throw in the rookie for the rest of the season, and let him take his lumps.

Counterpoint: don't throw the rookie in at the end of his rookie season to bear the unreasonable expectations that will come with taking over a team in 1st place and still in the playoff hunt, let him have an entire season to redshirt plus another offseason to prepare, and then come in next year.  I've seen enough 1st rounders ruined by unreasonable expectations too early in their careers, and PHII is not saving this season anyway, nor should he be expected to.  I don't see the benefit in potentially undermining his potential to rub Alex's nose in his own mediocrity.  I have to imagine that dude know he's gone after January anyway.

I don't think rookie QB's are ruined by expectations.  

Rookie QB's are ruined by being on terrible teams with bad coaches and put in situations that don't allow them to grow.  I don't think any of those things apply to the Chiefs.  

I agree he's not saving the season, but I don't think he harms the season given how awful the offense has been in the past 2 games against a mediocre defense and then a completely awful one.  Honestly, the AFC west is shit and I expect KC to make the playoffs with either guy and finish as they usually do... with a 1 and done against a good defense in cold weather.

I think there is immense potential benefit to playing him now and getting him some game time experience and potentially his first playoff start.  Getting timing down with Kelce and Tyreek now instead of later for one thing.  I don't think Wentz would be doing what he's doing had the Eagles started Chase Daniel last season.  Same thing with the Rams benching Keenum for Goff.  Goff wasn't ready then (having shit coach Jeff Fisher didn't help either), but that playing time likely helped him immensely grow in the offseason.

It's not like he's taking snaps with our offense in practice.  He runs some scout team plays.  That's it.   He's had time to learn the offense.  He's had time to adjust to the NFL expectations.  He's not improving by sitting at this point.   There's limited practice time and the starting QB gets every snap.

I'm not suggesting Mahomes to save the season, I'm suggesting it because I see no benefit to not doing so.   The only potential drawback is that he could be injured... but anyone on the field could be injured.  That's football.

I don't really think I have a point-by-point rebuttal to this, I just think I fundamentally disagree.  I'd rather let Mahomes ride this out through the season, go through another camp, and see him start fresh next year.  Really.  I think that would be better.  I do think that throwing him now would not be beneficial to him or the team.

Well, regardless of what I think, you'll get your way.   Big Grin  Reid will not be benching Smith.  Statistically he's still performing well overall, and team veterans never like a rookie QB until that QB is winning games.  They won't like it when Smith is sent packing in the off-season.  What I'm doing is, pardon my language, equivalent to mental masturbation.  

I'm consigned to the fact that KC will turn this slump around (this team is incredibly streaky under Andy Reid), fall short in the playoffs, and go into next season with people saying 'Will they keep Alex Smith?  He had his best season evah!!!'

I just want to turn the page.  DJ is done.  Hali is done.  It's a new generation of Chiefs time.
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#54
I think.........................Im about done
[Image: HG.gif]
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#55
(11-27-2017, 10:03 AM)HG Wrote: I think.........................Im about done

Shenanigans.
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#56
(11-27-2017, 02:08 PM)NOLA Wrote:
(11-27-2017, 10:03 AM)HG Wrote: I think.........................Im about done

Shenanigans.

No really.  We are talking about not going back
[Image: HG.gif]
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#57
(11-27-2017, 03:18 PM)HG Wrote:
(11-27-2017, 02:08 PM)NOLA Wrote:
(11-27-2017, 10:03 AM)HG Wrote: I think.........................Im about done

Shenanigans.

No really.  We are talking about not going back

You gotta do what I did.  I took an emotional step back from the team. They win, awesome. They lose, ah well, that sucks, but it doesn't affect my day.

The big decision for you is spending money to go to Arrowhead.  I think there's more to the experience than win/loss that is valuable.
[Image: CC23sig3copy.gif]
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#58
I've had a rough time recently. My cat (not his picture above, though I do have one somewhere with $3,200 clutched in one massive paw) of 16 years died a couple weeks ago of old age, closest I've ever been to an animal. One friend, not knowing my cat had already quit eating at that point, told me he viewed Paws and I as one part of the same entity.

My normal emotional escape of Chiefs football and tailgates hasn't helped since I haven't went to any games since the Redskins MNF game (I sold some tickets to help afford a car) and they haven't won since he died. And of course all this has to happen as the days get depressingly shorter. And I've been working ridiculously long hours. I need some damn sleep.

I really need something to go right. I know eventually I'll get upright, probably when I watch my nieces and nephew opening up their Christmas gifts, but even with as bad as the team has played I'm really looking forward to going with Vazza to the Raiders game.
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#59
(11-26-2017, 01:09 AM)The_Jonas Wrote:
(11-25-2017, 10:47 PM)NOLA Wrote:
(11-25-2017, 11:36 AM)The_Jonas Wrote:
(11-22-2017, 08:51 AM)NOLA Wrote:
(11-22-2017, 12:22 AM)warthog Wrote: I agree.  The worst part of it is that we had 2 weeks to change things up and we did nothing.  The staff had to know that the script was out there to beat us, yet we stayed pat.  Alex Smith might win us a division, but will lose in the first round.  Ive seen that play before.  Throw in the rookie for the rest of the season, and let him take his lumps.

Counterpoint: don't throw the rookie in at the end of his rookie season to bear the unreasonable expectations that will come with taking over a team in 1st place and still in the playoff hunt, let him have an entire season to redshirt plus another offseason to prepare, and then come in next year.  I've seen enough 1st rounders ruined by unreasonable expectations too early in their careers, and PHII is not saving this season anyway, nor should he be expected to.  I don't see the benefit in potentially undermining his potential to rub Alex's nose in his own mediocrity.  I have to imagine that dude know he's gone after January anyway.

I don't think rookie QB's are ruined by expectations.  

Rookie QB's are ruined by being on terrible teams with bad coaches and put in situations that don't allow them to grow.  I don't think any of those things apply to the Chiefs.  

I agree he's not saving the season, but I don't think he harms the season given how awful the offense has been in the past 2 games against a mediocre defense and then a completely awful one.  Honestly, the AFC west is shit and I expect KC to make the playoffs with either guy and finish as they usually do... with a 1 and done against a good defense in cold weather.

I think there is immense potential benefit to playing him now and getting him some game time experience and potentially his first playoff start.  Getting timing down with Kelce and Tyreek now instead of later for one thing.  I don't think Wentz would be doing what he's doing had the Eagles started Chase Daniel last season.  Same thing with the Rams benching Keenum for Goff.  Goff wasn't ready then (having shit coach Jeff Fisher didn't help either), but that playing time likely helped him immensely grow in the offseason.

It's not like he's taking snaps with our offense in practice.  He runs some scout team plays.  That's it.   He's had time to learn the offense.  He's had time to adjust to the NFL expectations.  He's not improving by sitting at this point.   There's limited practice time and the starting QB gets every snap.

I'm not suggesting Mahomes to save the season, I'm suggesting it because I see no benefit to not doing so.   The only potential drawback is that he could be injured... but anyone on the field could be injured.  That's football.

I don't really think I have a point-by-point rebuttal to this, I just think I fundamentally disagree.  I'd rather let Mahomes ride this out through the season, go through another camp, and see him start fresh next year.  Really.  I think that would be better.  I do think that throwing him now would not be beneficial to him or the team.

Well, regardless of what I think, you'll get your way.   Big Grin  Reid will not be benching Smith.  Statistically he's still performing well overall, and team veterans never like a rookie QB until that QB is winning games.  They won't like it when Smith is sent packing in the off-season.  What I'm doing is, pardon my language, equivalent to mental masturbation.  

I'm consigned to the fact that KC will turn this slump around (this team is incredibly streaky under Andy Reid), fall short in the playoffs, and go into next season with people saying 'Will they keep Alex Smith?  He had his best season evah!!!'

I just want to turn the page.  DJ is done.  Hali is done.  It's a new generation of Chiefs time.

I started writing a reply to this a couple of days ago--before the most recent game--and I got sidetracked by the holidays and computer problems, but the short of what I was gonna say was the following:

1) I'm gonna miss DJ; 2005, man.  We drafted the kid in 2005.  Job well done by him for all these years, especially fighting back from injury a couple of times.

and

2) I don't want to throw in Mahomes, but man, I can't really defend Alex anymore.  And I've spent so much time doing it.  Such shame.  I still think he's a wildly talented guy.  I wish he'd gotten out of his way more over the course of his career.  But we should cut ties in the offseason and put in Mahomes next year.
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