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Election 2016

(10-03-2019, 08:15 AM)DallasChief Wrote:  Much ado about nothing? Interesting.

It's not clear if it's a quid pro quo. It's not clear if it were a quid pro quo that it's even tangentially about Biden (over 500 words and multiple topics between "favor" and first mention of Biden) or if it's about generalized corruption, which is not only fine it's the same basic defense people are giving for Biden. It all depends upon how people read intent in both cases, which unfortunately means team colors to most people.

This is pretty weak sauce and coordinating this effort for months after 2 years of Russian Collusion is going to fatigue a lot of persuadable voters.
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"I am shocked that there is gambling in this establishment"

"Sir, here are your winnings"

"thank you."

ah, the genius of Casablanca.
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(10-04-2019, 02:21 AM)asskickingboots Wrote:  
(10-03-2019, 08:15 AM)DallasChief Wrote:  Much ado about nothing? Interesting.

It's not clear if it's a quid pro quo. It's not clear if it were a quid pro quo that it's even tangentially about Biden (over 500 words and multiple topics between "favor" and first mention of Biden) or if it's about generalized corruption, which is not only fine it's the same basic defense people are giving for Biden. It all depends upon how people read intent in both cases, which unfortunately means team colors to most people.

This is pretty weak sauce and coordinating this effort for months after 2 years of Russian Collusion is going to fatigue a lot of persuadable voters.

"We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost. ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. '


Seems pretty cut and dry there. Plus he's not talking about corruption in general. He is specifically asking about corruption against a political rival.

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(10-04-2019, 08:43 AM)Chi-town_Chief Wrote:  
(10-04-2019, 02:21 AM)asskickingboots Wrote:  
(10-03-2019, 08:15 AM)DallasChief Wrote:  Much ado about nothing? Interesting.

It's not clear if it's a quid pro quo. It's not clear if it were a quid pro quo that it's even tangentially about Biden (over 500 words and multiple topics between "favor" and first mention of Biden) or if it's about generalized corruption, which is not only fine it's the same basic defense people are giving for Biden. It all depends upon how people read intent in both cases, which unfortunately means team colors to most people.

This is pretty weak sauce and coordinating this effort for months after 2 years of Russian Collusion is going to fatigue a lot of persuadable voters.

"We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost. ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. '


Seems pretty cut and dry there. Plus he's not talking about corruption in general. He is specifically asking about corruption against a political rival.

No, that isn't cut and dry.

What it honestly looks like to me is Zelenskyy is trying to butter up Trump in multiple ways all throughout the call. I stayed in Trump Tower, we followed your example, drain the swamp, etc. He wasn't asking about our aid specifically, he's asking about BUYING missiles. Trump's a business man. Zelenskyy is trying to further establish a business relationship to stay on Trump's good side and that's smart on his part. Plus they do need those missles, obviously. There's even evidence that Ukraine didn't even know the US was holding back aid yet.

Besides, they legit discuss 5 or so topics in between "favor" and Biden. You do absolutely nothing to dispel any of these other topics and all of the topics, including Biden, have to do with corruption.

I would love to have President and Candidate Pence instead of Trump, and I don't even like Pence, but you're going to have to do better than that. The Democrats were hoping for more of a cover up from the White House, so releasing the transcript and complaint killed their best hope.
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(10-04-2019, 12:22 PM)asskickingboots Wrote:  
(10-04-2019, 08:43 AM)Chi-town_Chief Wrote:  
(10-04-2019, 02:21 AM)asskickingboots Wrote:  
(10-03-2019, 08:15 AM)DallasChief Wrote:  Much ado about nothing? Interesting.

It's not clear if it's a quid pro quo. It's not clear if it were a quid pro quo that it's even tangentially about Biden (over 500 words and multiple topics between "favor" and first mention of Biden) or if it's about generalized corruption, which is not only fine it's the same basic defense people are giving for Biden. It all depends upon how people read intent in both cases, which unfortunately means team colors to most people.

This is pretty weak sauce and coordinating this effort for months after 2 years of Russian Collusion is going to fatigue a lot of persuadable voters.

"We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost. ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. '


Seems pretty cut and dry there. Plus he's not talking about corruption in general. He is specifically asking about corruption against a political rival.

No, that isn't cut and dry.

What it honestly looks like to me is Zelenskyy is trying to butter up Trump in multiple ways all throughout the call. I stayed in Trump Tower, we followed your example, drain the swamp, etc. He wasn't asking about our aid specifically, he's asking about BUYING missiles. Trump's a business man. Zelenskyy is trying to further establish a business relationship to stay on Trump's good side and that's smart on his part. Plus they do need those missles, obviously. There's even evidence that Ukraine didn't even know the US was holding back aid yet.

Besides, they legit discuss 5 or so topics in between "favor" and Biden. You do absolutely nothing to dispel any of these other topics and all of the topics, including Biden, have to do with corruption.

I would love to have President and Candidate Pence instead of Trump, and I don't even like Pence, but you're going to have to do better than that. The Democrats were hoping for more of a cover up from the White House, so releasing the transcript and complaint killed their best hope.


The way it works though is we send them the funds and then they use the money to purchase the missiles.

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(10-04-2019, 05:12 PM)Chi-town_Chief Wrote:  
(10-04-2019, 12:22 PM)asskickingboots Wrote:  
(10-04-2019, 08:43 AM)Chi-town_Chief Wrote:  
(10-04-2019, 02:21 AM)asskickingboots Wrote:  
(10-03-2019, 08:15 AM)DallasChief Wrote:  Much ado about nothing? Interesting.

It's not clear if it's a quid pro quo. It's not clear if it were a quid pro quo that it's even tangentially about Biden (over 500 words and multiple topics between "favor" and first mention of Biden) or if it's about generalized corruption, which is not only fine it's the same basic defense people are giving for Biden. It all depends upon how people read intent in both cases, which unfortunately means team colors to most people.

This is pretty weak sauce and coordinating this effort for months after 2 years of Russian Collusion is going to fatigue a lot of persuadable voters.

"We are ready to continue to cooperate for the next steps specifically we are almost. ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.

The President: I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. '


Seems pretty cut and dry there. Plus he's not talking about corruption in general. He is specifically asking about corruption against a political rival.

No, that isn't cut and dry.

What it honestly looks like to me is Zelenskyy is trying to butter up Trump in multiple ways all throughout the call. I stayed in Trump Tower, we followed your example, drain the swamp, etc. He wasn't asking about our aid specifically, he's asking about BUYING missiles. Trump's a business man. Zelenskyy is trying to further establish a business relationship to stay on Trump's good side and that's smart on his part. Plus they do need those missles, obviously. There's even evidence that Ukraine didn't even know the US was holding back aid yet.

Besides, they legit discuss 5 or so topics in between "favor" and Biden. You do absolutely nothing to dispel any of these other topics and all of the topics, including Biden, have to do with corruption.

I would love to have President and Candidate Pence instead of Trump, and I don't even like Pence, but you're going to have to do better than that. The Democrats were hoping for more of a cover up from the White House, so releasing the transcript and complaint killed their best hope.


The way it works though is we send them the funds and then they use the money to purchase the missiles.

As I understand it most of the money has been loans. Loans, even if backed by the US, that are expected to be re-paid by the Ukrainians.

Even so, the point still stands that the Ukrainians likely didn't know funds were being held back, especially at the time of the call. If Trump were trying to exert some kind of maximum pressure campaign, he's doing it wrong.

I've seen some people pushing a text thread involving Volker that shows the Ukrainians knew, problem being it was over a month after the phone call.
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