Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 4 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5

Election 2016

Do we dare bring this up?  Will it piss people off?  Will people hate each other?  Good!  Liberals, Conservatives, and the In betweeners!  All are welcome.    Okay.  Im one of those that feels we need to Trump that Bitch.  But I could be wrong.  Would I vote for Trump.  Hell yes I will.  If he succeeds then groovy.  If not then it will give others the kick in the ass they need.  Change is needed.  I think A Trump/ Christie ticket is just what we need.  Hell might as well throw Sarah in the mix.  This Country needs an Enema!  I love my Country and everyone has a right to their opinion.  

I think this is a good move on Trumps part to skip the debate.  He has one the previous 6.  Its gonna be interesting

[Image: HG.gif]

[Image: shaking_head_breaking_bad.gif]

Working on a rebuttal, but it may take me a while because I like things like facts and proof. Not a fan of Trump at all.

If trump gets the ticket then you might as well hand the Presidency to the Dems.   Noone in the middle is going to vote for that guy.   Infact alot of us will vote just to make sure he doesn't get his hands on the codes.  85 claims fact checked on Politirfact and only 1, yes just 1 true statement. The only person with less is Ben Carson.

I know that isn't a fool proof system, but it's pretty clear he doesn't give two shits about what the truth is.

Although no one on the Dems side is awe inspiring this year either.  As Always:

[Image: chitown4.gif]
Check out my new fan page for daily updates

As typical, there are no good options.

I hate Donald J Trump. Yes, I'm a conservative / libertarian-ish guy, and I cannot stand him. Yes, even though I don’t like Hillary or Bernie Sanders. He’s not facing those two in the primary. If he did win the Republican nomination, I will not vote for him. I will go 3rd party.

I have numerous, specific reasons for disliking Trump. I haven't liked Trump from moment one, and the more he talks the more I dislike him. I don’t say this lightly.

So, here's the majority of the reasons I'm against Trump and rebuttals to common things I’ve heard in his defense.

Trump is not a politician!

Trump has not held public office. I’m fine with that. However, he has said repeatedly in different ways that he “bought” politicians.

First off, that’s illegal. Second off, as with most things he's involved with he's overstating his importance. At the first debate he talked like he’d bought and paid for even some politicians on the stage. He was "very generous" he said, yet he’s only given $10k to Jeb and less than $2,500 to a couple others. I'm sure Jeb felt compelled to do Trump's bidding at a mere .000004% of Trump's estimated wealth. Very generous my ass.

I believe you can buy some politicians, but not for less money than it takes to buy a stripped down Ford Fiesta. Beyond that, we have a word for people that buy politicians. Lobbyists.

Trump has repeatedly used and abused the system in his favor. You want a prime example of this, check out the next topic.

TLDR: Trump is a damned lobbyist.

Trump will stand for the little guy!

No he won’t. He never has in his life unless it somehow furthered his own purposes. Trump has an ED problem. In this case, ED stands for Eminent Domain.

Do you like eminent domain abuse? I don’t. Private property rights are a cornerstone of a free society. If you don’t actually own it, you’re at the mercy of the government and the rich assholes that get them elected. I don’t necessarily mind it for its actual intended purpose of being for schools and highways and actual public works, but eminent domain was never intended to help fat-cat billionaire dickheads kick a little old lady out of her home so he can put up limo parking for his casino.

Did that seem like an awful specific metaphor? That’s because it’s not a metaphor. It’s absolutely the truth. Check it out:

You can find much more detail on this specific situation, but it’s not exactly a unique story in the history of Trump and he still argues about how his ED isn't a problem to this day.

TLDR: Watch the damn video.

Only Trump Can Win

This is the type of argument people make when they don't have anything real to stand up for.

How many times in just my life have I had to hear “Only Romney can win”. Before that “Only McCain can win”. Before that “Only Dole can win”. It’s a miracle Bush won at all, even on a technicality. The last time a principled conservative ran was Reagan and he won in a landslide, twice, yet I’ve heard so much garbage from establishment types every election cycle. Now, this same meaningless, unproven line of crap is being used to prop up Trump solely because he’s the current front-runner in a crowded field where he does not have a majority.

Have you seen Trump’s unfavorability poll numbers? His net favorability ratings are horrible! If you don’t want to click the link, it boils down to this… People DO NOT LIKE HIM! The people who like him really like him, but virtually everyone else hates his guts. They will not vote for him. He has the worst net favorability amongst any of the GOP candidates by a long shot. Hell, he has worse net favorability than Hillary. I didn't know you could be more despised than her without being chased around by a pitchfork and torch wielding mob everywhere you went.

So, despite that it matters that “no one likes Cruz” to Trump (it’s something he’s said repeatedly these last few weeks) Cruz has a much higher net favorability in every category of potential voter! The same is true for Huckabee, Carson, Fiorina, Paul, and Rubio.

Why does it matter? You need some Independents and even some “blue dog” Reagan Democrats to win a general election. Hell, you need to get some of those Republicans that supported other candidates back to your side after you win the nomination, and Trump doesn't even seem to have that. You cannot possibly hope to win with just some of the Republican party while pissing everyone else off. By this standard, most of the candidates are easily more electable than him.

“I want to win!” I’ve heard a lot of Trump supporters say this. He’s not the guy that’s going to win the general election, no matter how much you want it. That doesn't mean we settle on Jeb. Those aren't our only options. If it's about electability, they aren't it. Besides, I'm interested in more than just winning. I'm interested in promoting conservative and libertarian values. I'm interested in having a national debt that doesn't have 12 zeroes attached to the end of it.

TLDR: Trump might be the least likely GOP candidate to win a general election.

Trump is a successful business man, so he knows how to get things done!

Trump started out with a bit of a hand up on most of us. His dad was worth $200 million. Adjusted for inflation that’s over $1 Billion in today’s money. Putting that amount of money in decent stocks and mutual funds would have likely outperformed Trump.

Look at his actual business history.

Trump’s father’s wealth wouldn’t have even survived if not for direct government intervention, as well as the Mob. Trump's businesses have not only declared bankruptcy multiple times, they never would have survived without getting a sweetheart deal. He has directly committed fraud on multiple occasions, and that's if you believe him.

TLDR: Trump is not a self-made man. He inherited his wealth and cheated the system for the rest of it.

You just hate Trump! Do you actually stand for anything?

I like a number of candidates. The Republican field has its strengths and weaknesses. I have two candidates I like more than most.

Rand Paul, being a relatively Libertarian candidate, stands for many of the things I want most. He is staunchly against the NSA intrusively invading my privacy, specifically when it comes to their collection of cell phone meta-data. It’s a power grab which isn’t even called for in the overreaching Patriot Act and clearly contradicts the 4th amendment. Issue by issue, Rand Paul probably is most in line with my views, especially domestically.

My favorite candidate is probably Ted Cruz, though. He is more conservative than me, yet I support him because I think he’s the most principled, rock solid of all of them.

Note, both of those guys are anti-cronyism. I hate crony capitalism. I hate the government picking winners and losers with other people's money. I hate when regulations are designed with limiting competition as a primary goal. A specific example of both of these guys being against crony capitalism is they can even avoid the siren call of Ethanol. They do not support government subsidies and mandates for ethanol in gas despite the fact that it’s a winning issue among farmers in many red states. They aren’t pandering. They’re standing on principle.

I don’t think those guys are perfect either, though. I don’t expect nearly everyone reading this to like those specific candidates because their politics may be counter to their own values, but you can’t say all of these candidates are corrupt. I don't think someone like Ben Carson is corrupt either, even if I don't think he's prepared to be president. I hate Bernie Sanders because of his populist / socialist policies, but I don’t think he’s corrupt either. I think he believes what he says and I can respect at least that much, even if I wince at the thought of an older, more curmudgeony Larry David being president.

Trump is all about cronyism. I don’t think he’d be in this race if he weren’t.

TLDR: I support candidates that are against corruption.

Trump is so smart for dropping out of the debate!

Trump is so selfish for dropping out of the debate.

The debates aren’t for the candidates or the networks. They’re for the people, especially the undecided voters that want to learn more about these candidates and their actual stances. Even if Trump thought he would risk more going to the debate because of one bimbo chick (his word in a thinly veiled tweet), he’s doing a disservice to the American people and the people of Iowa. Then again, maybe he’s doing them a favor by not wasting their time.

Oh, but Reagan didn’t go to the debate before Iowa in 1980! Yeah, and he lost Iowa and fired multiple advisors. It was not a winning strategy.

I also liked Ted Cruz’s immediate response of challenging Trump to a 1 on 1 debate, with or without a moderator. Trump likely won’t even respond, because if he did he either looks weak by refusing the challenge or he gets destroyed on stage. Being on a large debate stage with so many candidates has actually served to protect him in the past debates. If he had more time with an opportunity for people to directly respond to him, it wouldn’t go over well. Cruz’s challenge also got some play in the news cycle, so “Trump isn’t going” isn’t all that’s said.

As Trump once said, “Brains is first”. So SAMRT!

TLDR: Stupid, selfish, and might just backfire.

Trump will build a fence and make Mexico pay for it!

Mexico won't pay for it and do you really think you can trust Donald J. Trump?

Do I want a fence and a fixed immigration system that's fairly enforced, designed to benefit the United States, its citizens, and those it deems worthy of becoming legal immigrants. Yes! However, there is no way in hell Mexico will pay for a fence.

You know what the #1 "industy" in Mexico is? Money sent from the US. They will not, no matter the threat, no matter how awesome you believe you are at negotiating deals, no matter how famous you are, no matter if you're worth "many, many billions of dollars", no matter if you ask them pretty please, under any circumstances pay to build a fence that cuts off their largest economic driver. They have government funded programs and ad campaigns to teach people how to break into the US and how to apply for benefits once they get here. You are naive if you believe this line that he can get them to pay for it.

Completely unnecessary tangent here, but I hate that "many, many billions of dollars" line. Forbes estimates Trump at $2.7 billion, so either 2.7 is "many, many", or Trump has an awful lot of illegitimately accounted for business. I'd believe either.

But if immigration is the primary reason you like Trump, he's been pro-amnesty, pro-open borders in the past. So what? Who cares what he thought 20 years ago? Well, he's been pro-amnesty as recently as August, even in the midst of talking about building his wall.

It's not surprising. He flips positions to the flavor of the month. One moment he wants to "bomb the shit out of" ISIS, the next he wants to stay out of it and let Russia handle it, and back again. You can't trust him because frankly he doesn't know what he's going to say 5 minutes from now. He has no principles.

Or are you going to tell me this guy that provided major financial support to Rahm Emanuel's campaign just a few years ago really is the most conservitiest conservative that ever conservatived?

TLDR: You can't trust Trump to be steadfast on any issue, let alone immigration.

I'm pretty tired at the moment, so I don't know if this is as good or comprehensive as I intended it to be. I didn't really get to every issue I have with Trump or reasons I'd vote for other people, but suffice it to say I think he's garbage through and through. I don't want him representing me in any way. I wouldn't trust him to watch a half-eaten bologna sandwich, yet alone an entire country, and you can't rule a country via an insult laden Twitter feed.

Trump is not even close to being a conservative or a libertarian, just saying.

He's just a classic big-government statist who's contributed to Democrats most of his life.

If the R's nominate him, the Republican party should just quit.

On a brighter note, my chosen candidate - the guy I voted for with enthusiasm - is back in the race.

Gary Johnson for President!

Im just tired of the Dems and the GOP every election saying they will take care of certain things and then not do anything.    Kinda like the two idiots that where givin control of both houses of Congress.  Both said they were gonna fight and fight to get things done and as soon as they got the position they just shut down.  Im tired of it.  You can hate Trump all ya want. I think he has shaken things up a bit and has caused a bit of a panic in both parties.  

However.  I am open to other options.  Im not closed minded. I even listened to the Dems town hall a couple days ago.  Sanders age bothers me.  But he did raise a couple points that interested me.

[Image: HG.gif]

(01-28-2016, 01:27 AM)asskickingboots Wrote:  you can't rule a country via an insult laden Twitter feed.

No, you can.


(01-28-2016, 08:18 AM)ChiefsChick23 Wrote:  Trump is not even close to being a conservative or a libertarian, just saying.

He's just a classic big-government statist who's contributed to Democrats most of his life.

If the R's nominate him, the Republican party should just quit.

On a brighter note, my chosen candidate - the guy I voted for with enthusiasm - is back in the race.

Gary Johnson for President!

If I don't like the GOP nominee, you bet your ass I'm looking at Gary Johnson.

Forum Jump:

Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)