33 replies to this topic

[nathanKent]

http://www.homeofthe...orn-and-broken/

[nathanKent]

BarryinStlouis, on Jun 15 2009, 05:04 PM, said:

Tony wanted out JUST like Waters, but the Chiefs got very fair value for the future hall of famer who will retire a CHIEF.

No they didn't.

BarryinStlouis, on Jun 15 2009, 05:04 PM, said:

I agree, we could use his services, BUT NOT at the expense of the team, or this franchise and it's name. Mr. Waters should know that. I expect him smiling at camp.

It's not an issue of it being at the expense of the team. Jared Allen posted his best season in 2007 even though he didn't want to be here. Brian Waters will suck it up and do the same if necessary. I really don't think you grasp at all exactly how bad Wade Smith really is. Like, not even a little bit. Wade Smith should not be on an NFL roster.

[nathanKent]

BarryinStlouis, on Jun 15 2009, 07:51 PM, said:

I actually do grasp how bad Wade Smith is bro. But Brian Waters is under contract, and he doesn't have a choice. It still is a very thick situation I'm sure. And one could make the argument that Brian should be able to get traded just like Tony. Time will tell, hell they may still trade him. One thing is for sure Nathan, I trust that Scott Pioli AND Todd Haley will not be starting Wade Smith at LG come opening day.

I hope they're smart enough to see the light on that one, but Todd Haley is coming from a team that started three subpar linemen in the middle. It worked reasonably well because they didn't run the ball, but they didn't have to run the ball because they had Fitzgerald, Boldin, and Breaston. Kansas City is not similarly equipped at WR, but potentially has an abundance of talent at RB. This makes the retention of Brian Waters that much more critical (add to that also Cassel's penchant for impersonating David Carr).

Wade Smith will get somebody hurt, and that person won't be Wade Smith. Write that down.

[Hersheybar]

I am drinking the Koolaid HC.... Lets see what happens next. You are making me a believer. I will see you up in River Falls. Brian Waters you are going to have a very long Training Camp. If you don't change you're attitude you will be sitting the pine. It not what you did for us, it what you can do for us. It very much up to you. A little conditing would not hurt you and remember you don't have to agree with the boss but you do have to do what he says.

[nathanKent]

Hersheybar, on Jun 16 2009, 05:42 PM, said:

I am drinking the Koolaid HC.... Lets see what happens next. You are making me a believer. I will see you up in River Falls. Brian Waters you are going to have a very long Training Camp. If you don't change you're attitude you will be sitting the pine. It not what you did for us, it what you can do for us. It very much up to you. A little conditing would not hurt you and remember you don't have to agree with the boss but you do have to do what he says.

There is zero indication that Waters isn't aware of this, just as there is zero indication that he's been anything other than cooperative since he arrived on the scene. And no, he will not be riding pine. It took him all of about 15 minutes to supplant Wade Smith from that starting job. Unless Brian de la Puente comes alive, Waters' spot is safe.

[milkman]

nathanKent, on Jun 15 2009, 07:40 PM, said:

No they didn't.

Yes they did.
They got more than any of us should have reasonably expected.

Quote

It's not an issue of it being at the expense of the team. Jared Allen posted his best season in 2007 even though he didn't want to be here. Brian Waters will suck it up and do the same if necessary. I really don't think you grasp at all exactly how bad Wade Smith really is. Like, not even a little bit. Wade Smith should not be on an NFL roster.

I have zero concern that Wade Smith will be starting.
An unhappy Brian Waters has more value to this team than he has to another team, and I have very little doubt that Pioli would give Waters away, which is essetially what he'd be doing in trade.
No one will give up what Waters is wrth to the Chiefs.

[nathanKent]

milkman, on Jun 17 2009, 08:12 AM, said:

Yes they did.
They got more than any of us should have reasonably expected.

If I sold my Explorer for $3000 tomorrow it would be more than I could have reasonably expected. It would still cost me a lot more to replace it with as reliable a vehicle.

[milkman]

nathanKent, on Jun 17 2009, 03:24 PM, said:

If I sold my Explorer for $3000 tomorrow it would be more than I could have reasonably expected. It would still cost me a lot more to replace it with as reliable a vehicle.

It doesn't matter what you have to pay to replace it, if you get more for it than you should reasonably expect, then you got great value.

However, the problem here is that, while reliable, you've been taking it to car shows, and you can't win car shows with an Explorer.

[nathanKent]

milkman, on Jun 17 2009, 04:22 PM, said:

It doesn't matter what you have to pay to replace it, if you get more for it than you should reasonably expect, then you got great value.

However, the problem here is that, while reliable, you've been taking it to car shows, and you can't win car shows with an Explorer.

That was a total bullshit answer, but kind of funny.

[milkman]

nathanKent, on Jun 17 2009, 04:59 PM, said:

That was a total bullshit answer, but kind of funny.

It was a bullshit answer only because I was responding to bullshit to begin with.

[nathanKent]

milkman, on Jun 17 2009, 05:01 PM, said:

It was a bullshit answer only because I was responding to bullshit to begin with.

No you weren't. We have a QB who you and I both agree is a potential liability, and we traded away the one reliable target he had. Now before you go making your argument about TE being an irrelevant position, let's just knock that one out in advance. Tony was a TE on running downs and a slot WR on passing downs. He did not play TE like a TE. Jay Novacek played TE like a TE. Ozzie Newsome played TE like a TE. Tony did not.

As for fair trade value, I do not see how a belated 2nd round pick is a fair return on that investment.

[milkman]

nathanKent, on Jun 17 2009, 05:10 PM, said:

No you weren't. We have a QB who you and I both agree is a potential liability, and we traded away the one reliable target he had. Now before you go making your argument about TE being an irrelevant position, let's just knock that one out in advance. Tony was a TE on running downs and a slot WR on passing downs. He did not play TE like a TE. Jay Novacek played TE like a TE. Ozzie Newsome played TE like a TE. Tony did not.

As for fair trade value, I do not see how a belated 2nd round pick is a fair return on that investment.

He was a reliable target sure.

A slowass TE by any other name is still a slowass TE.

And since I never expected to get anything more than a 3rd round pick for him, a delayed 2nd rounder is good value.

[nathanKent]

milkman, on Jun 17 2009, 05:14 PM, said:

He was a reliable target sure.

A slowass TE by any other name is still a slowass TE.

And since I never expected to get anything more than a 3rd round pick for him, a delayed 2nd rounder is good value.

Tony never really struck me as being slow.

[NOLA]

nathanKent, on Jun 17 2009, 05:31 PM, said:

Tony never really struck me as being slow.

I'm not sure how he's slow for a tight end, anyway. It's not like he was doubling as a punt returner.

[nathanKent]

NOLA, on Jun 17 2009, 05:32 PM, said:

I'm not sure how he's slow for a tight end, anyway. It's not like he was doubling as a punt returner.

It took me a bit, but I found his 40 from the 1997 combine. 4.55 seconds. That's not even slow for a WR.

[NOLA]

nathanKent, on Jun 17 2009, 05:43 PM, said:

It took me a bit, but I found his 40 from the 1997 combine. 4.55 seconds. That's not even slow for a WR.

I think that's on par or faster than Bowe's 40 time (4.6?)

[nathanKent]

NOLA, on Jun 17 2009, 05:47 PM, said:

I think that's on par or faster than Bowe's 40 time (4.6?)

I think you're right too. Ya know, I used to have all of our skill players' 40s listed in my notes, but I can't find them to save my life. Bowe, however, is on the slow side for a WR, and Cottam is on the fast side. If I recall correctly, Bowe has about .05 on Cottam.